Please advise re ZDDP and Moly

[esoxlucios]

A week ago, I sent off for a Blackstone UOA. It's for an Audi TT with a 331awhp built 1.8t with 5,440 miles on the rebuild and 1,154 miles on the oil. I am running Amsoil European Formula 5W-30, to which I added about 4 oz. of Crane Cams break-in ZDDP additive (p/n 99003-1) and a half bottle of the LubroMoly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment.
Below is the returned analysis:

While I was waiting for the results, I asked Crane Cams via e-mail how much their additive would raise the ZDDP levels, because too much can be bad and cause pitting. Mike Covello of Crane Cams wrote back:

Quote:
Good afternoon,
One 8 oz. bottle of 99003-1 additive will increase the ZDDP content of five quarts of motor coil approximately 400 ppm. This equates to 1.6 oz. of additive raising ZDDP concentration of one quart by the same amount.


But, something's not adding up. Based on someone else's UOA of Amsoil's European Formula 5W-30, the Zinc is 816ppm and the Phosphorus is 755ppm:

Well, I only added one half of the Crane Cams additive, yet my Zinc and Phos levels are 2631 and 2129, respectively. In other words, one-half bottle of the additive appears to have increased the ppm by 1374 and 1815, respectively.

First question I have, are my ZDDP levels too high ― do I need to change out some oil right away? Second question: Who did the math incorrectly? Me or Crame Cams?

P.S.: the high lead was because a station here in Minnesota was dispensing leaded fuel out of an unleaded pump. More about that here: http://www.mnautox.com/forums/showthread...ll=1#post224052

 

[Donald]

What oil and additives did your engine builder suggest. I would have gone with Amsoil break-in oil.

 

[Clevy]

I wouldn't worry. Your breaking in a new engine. High zddp is good in that respect. There are oils with those levels of zddp however I don't know if the chemistry compensates for it.
I say run it. But that's not a professional or scientific advice

 

[esoxlucios]

Originally Posted By: Donald
What oil and additives did your engine builder suggest. I would have gone with Amsoil break-in oil.


My engine rebuilder put in the Redline break-in oil, which I ran for the first 100 miles. After that, I ran dino oil up to the first 1,000 miles. Then I went with full synthetic, as required by VAG for this engine. At this point, I'm just trying to maintain enough ZDDP for the flat-tappet cams. In addition, I had the cams cryo-treated (probably snake oil), and WPC-treated (definitely not snake oil, as I can attest from personal experience on transmission gears where the shop, Imola Motorsports, forgot to tighten the drain plug).

 

[dave1251]

I would say that ZDDP levels above 1500 ppm are not needed and are little to no benefit. But that is only my opinion you should consult a professional.

 

[Donald]

Amsoil also sells ZROD oil for flat tappet cams.

 

[ottotheclown]

The calcium the zinc and the phosphorus levels look weak like those of Beck beer . Or am I missing something??This is the Honda report for the life of me I have no idea why it is there either. Hey listen we all have these days.

 

[esoxlucios]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
The calcium the zinc and the phosphorus levels look weak like those of Beck beer . Or am I missing something??This is the Honda report for the life of me I have no idea why it is there either. Hey listen we all have these days.


How many Beck beers did you have when you read the OP?

(1) The first report is from my Audi running Amsoil 5W-30 European Formula with two additives thrown in.

(2) The second report is from someone else's car running unadulterated Amsoil 5W-30 European Formula.

(3) The purpose of including the second report was to identify the increase in Zinc, Phos, and Moly based on 4 oz. each of the additives mentioned in the OP.

 

[Turk]

Where do you Muskie fish?

I do a lot of fishing in Mn. Going to the St. Croix River Ice Fishing early tomorrow morning.

 

[esoxlucios]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Where do you Muskie fish?

I do a lot of fishing in Mn. Going to the St. Croix River Ice Fishing early tomorrow morning.

Wish I had time (not lately; I'm finishing up a JD, have a full-time gig, a private practice, and little kids at home)! Sounds like great fun — can I come along? Last item I laid eyes on a good sized Muskie (esox masquinongy) was at the State Fair this past summer.

 

[friendly_jacek]

What a screwup about the leaded gas!
Did your cat die?

 

[esoxlucios]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
What a screwup about the leaded gas!
Did your cat die?


After I sent notice of suit, they ordered a replacement HJS cat (now in my garage), and have promised to pay the labor for replacement and ceramic coating. The the closest emissions testing places are in Illinois, so I don't know how badly damaged the existing cat is.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: esoxlucios
Originally Posted By: Turk
Where do you Muskie fish?

I do a lot of fishing in Mn. Going to the St. Croix River Ice Fishing early tomorrow morning.

Wish I had time (not lately; I'm finishing up a JD, have a full-time gig, a private practice, and little kids at home)! Sounds like great fun — can I come along? Last item I laid eyes on a good sized Muskie (esox masquinongy) was at the State Fair this past summer.


My Dad caught a 42Lb Muskie in Big Winnie (know the lake well).

Tomorrow? Actually my Wife is coming along, so there's no extra room, but if you like to fish, I sometimes got room, especially in the boat.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

how much Zn Phos is in the Amsoil European formula? how much moly? how many quarts? then you can guess at the increase from the additives.

i think anything over 1200-1500 ZDDP is just unnecessary and could create additive clash with the oil

also, if you add half a bottle of LM and you get 200 ppm moly, that's pretty sad. the Redline had 800 ppm from the start

 

[Phishin]

I have no idea about Crane Cam's break-in additive.

But Lucas Break-In has 50,000ppm Zinc. Yep. That's what I use.

And stop all this talk about musky fishing....I'm having SERIOUS withdrawls. My brother has a place on Lake St. Clair so I'm up there almost every weekend. That lake is on FIRE the past few years!!! Holy Smokes!!!

And if you read Musky Hunter magazine or go to musky shows, etc.....or even watch any musky fishing on TV, you've seen my other brother, Mike Hulbert.