Honda Z-1 and DW-1 compatibility

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MajorCavalry

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I am planning on doing a fluid change on my Acura TL with 6 speed auto. It calls for Honda/Acura DW-1 fluid. I was looking on various websites (Redline for one). They list Redline D4 as Z-1 compatible. No mention of DW-1. I emailed their tech support and was assured that it is also DW-1 compatible which kind of makes sense.

However, I went to the Royal Purple website and when looking at their ATF, it specifically states it is Z-1 compatible, but NOT recommended for replacement of DW-1. I know Honda Z-1 and DW-1 are compatible. I wonder why Royal Purple would be incompatible?

I hope this posts makes a bit of sense. Lead me to believe that Z-1 and DW-1 may not be as compatible
as I thought.
 
The primary difference between the two is viscosity. I didn't know before your post that Redline would recommend D4 for Z1 vehicles; I'd have thought that they're recommend their D6. D4 starts at 7.5 cSt, closer to Z1, and D6 starts at 6.4 cSt, closer to DW-1. You may consider sending Redline a follow-up email to see if they'd say that D6 is appropriate. Then again, Castrol recommends its Transmax IMV (8.0 cSt) for both.

I'd be hesitant on using a fluid in a DW-1 application that doesn't say on the bottle or on the website that it's good for those applications. Valvoline MaxLife is one such product. Valvoline's tech support line told me that it is appropriate for DW-1 applications, but it's not on their website and it's not on the bottle. Castrol's Transmax IMV is the only product I've seen that actually has DW-1 on the bottle (but it's not yet on their PDS).

I'm using Transmax IMV in both of my vehicles, both of which originally had Z1. I'm very happy with it so far. I like it better than MaxLife, which was in both previously, and I like it better than DW-1, which was also in both previously (especially in our Acura).
 
If I were not using a Honda DW-1 ATF I would only use ATF from a major company (Amsoil, Redline, etc) where the container mentions DW-1 on the label. I would not take the word of a tech support guy.
 
I do plan on using Acura DW-1. Bought 12 quarts from Bernardi Acura for $8/qt including shipping so not a bad deal. No mention on the bottle that it is synthetic though. I was only bringing up the point that Z-1 and DW-1 may not be completely compatible.

I laud Royal Purple for making the distinction. Maybe it has not been tested for compatibility yet and they do not wish to extrapolate.
 
possibly they are completely compatible in some applications but not all.

ie an older honda could use either,

a 2013 model that was designed for dw-1 may have issues.
 
How old is your TL? I thought 6-speed auto is very new. How many miles do you have on it that it needs a drain-n-fill? Are you doing it at 15K?
 
It's not nice to use anything but Honda ATF in a Honda product
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TL is a 2012. I plan on doing a drain and fill at 20K. I like to get all the metallic particles off the magnetic drain plug and see what things look like. I think each drain is about 4.5 quarts. I will then run it another 5K and do again. The goal is to get out all of the initial wear particles.

After that I think I will just follow the motor minder.
 
The best fluid you can use is probably Red Line D6 or Amsoil ATL.

Red Line D4 (Mobil 1, Amsoil ATF) is too-thick for most applications but that's not going to cause any real trouble. If you want to go cheaper, then look for something that meets one (or more) of these specs:

Dexron VI
Honda DW-1
Mercon SP and/or LV
Toyota WS
...

Also, changing out your fluid sooner (before 3000mi) is better than later (waiting for 20k). Check your manual for a severe-service and use this as your max for fluid-change. Otherwise use fluid analysis to find out your best interval.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The primary difference between the two is viscosity.


Did you take at ICP just as a starter? It won't tell you everything but it might indicate something.
 
When you do change the transmission oil, please update this topic. If you can take the picture of the drain plug with the particles on it, it would help.

It is your car and you can change the fluid right now if you want to. Personally, I have the exact same vehicle and no way I am changing the transmission fluid until at least 30K miles. Your pictures might change my mind though.

Looking at the owner's manual (page 540), transmission fluid replacement service is a Level 3 service and I am guessing it is due at 60K miles. Honda does not explicitly state mileage or time, so it is purely guess on my part. But given Level 2 is for engine air filter which seems to be for 30K miles, I am assuming Level 3 is at 60K.

A better approach would be to find older Honda manuals which did not use the electronic maintenance minder system and get the schedule from there. It will be more aggressive but at least you would have a solid basis than the guessing that I am doing here. You also have to account for much better current DW-1 fluid than the previous Z1 fluid.
 
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a while ago i checked with Redline about D6, and i was told Redline D6 is NOT suitable for ATF-DW1 or ATF-Z1 applications. contrary to their website, i was told the additive package was different between D6 and D4, Redline also told me the D6 results (report) were inconsistent with Honda, and so they are not recommend D6 for ATF-Z1/DW1; but since the result are inconsistent, that i can try it on my Honda, but drain it out if the result is not desired. I explained the primary reason for D6 is for better cold weather performance; and David mentioned the Viscosity Index on D4 is much higher then D6 and so I am gaining nothing in that regard. I continue using D4 (and maxlife).
I don't know what prevent all these blender posting compatibility of ATF-DW1 on their website, I suspect the additive vender are validating it still.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MajorCavalry
TL is a 2012. I plan on doing a drain and fill at 20K. I like to get all the metallic particles off the magnetic drain plug and see what things look like. I think each drain is about 4.5 quarts. I will then run it another 5K and do again. The goal is to get out all of the initial wear particles.

After that I think I will just follow the motor minder.

there are some study, most transmission wear occurred during the first 8000 miles. this is the primary reason inline transmission filter are recommend to install after cooler/radiator with mileage >8000.
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy
... most transmission wear occurred during the first 8000 miles.

BINGO! If you wait till the first scheduled fluid-change the majority of damage (wear) is already done. After the first change, the fluid will remain much cleaner than the factory (break-in) fill. So the sooner you get on that path, the better.

No time like the present.
 
Of course it does! The majority of problems are the result of built in dirt/contamination or whatever you want to call it. If you run that thing for two or three thousand miles then do a triple flush, in my experience using a superior fluid such as DEXRON-VI will take you to 200K no problem.
 
Hello, After watching the printed specifications for JWS 3309 transmission fluid come and sometimes go on bottles, I decided not to sit through a rerun which involved the DW-1 spec from Honda. I simply told my brother to pick-up 2 cases of DW-1 from the closest Honda dealer after my friend, the transmission repair shop owner, called in the order. I doubt the previous owner of the '07 Odyssey (49K) did any such maintenance. Out with the dirty-in with the clean. Super fluids come later. Kira
 
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Of course it does! The majority of problems are the result of built in dirt/contamination or whatever you want to call it. If you run that thing for two or three thousand miles then do a triple flush, in my experience using a superior fluid such as DEXRON-VI will take you to 200K no problem.


Do you think the DEXRON-VI is compatible with ATF-DW1? thanks.
 
I would use only the Honda fluid while this 2012 Acura is still under factory warranty. No exceptions. FWIW--Oldtommy
 
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