NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH

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The oil has a very interesting VOA, as I've not seen Lead used as an additive before, so I wonder what that is doing in terms of lining the cylinder walls or something.


NEO has always been an interesting oil. At one time they used mostly diesters as base oils, but due to high diester costs, I doubt they use diesters exclusively now, but mix it with other oils such as PAO's and POE's.

I do know they have used a lead additive in the past such as Lead dithiocarbamate which is one of those anti-wear and anti-oxidant agents.

I too would be concerend about the lead deposits coating any cats or other after treatment devices.

The VOA of AZ's NEO does fall into the SAE 20 weight range at 7.5 cSt.

According to their current website, the lowest viscosity oil they now produce is a 5W20.

It would be interesting to see what their current 5W20 oil contains.
 
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I think this was a fascinating experiment and have waited to see this UOA. I guess the test is going to be ongoing, so we will see more up ahead. It certainly stretches the concept of using light oils into new territory... for me anyway.

I have see numerous instances of straight 20 grade being used in diesels of the distant past for winter. You will find many Nebraska tractor tests of '50s and '60s tractors with straight 20 grade. When I look at the dates of some of the tests, they sometimes fall outside of the time period we normally call "winter" (though it is Nebraska after all) but I have sometimes wondered if the mfrs didn't run 20 grade so their engine would read higher on the hp rating (generally PTO hp) at the expense of some extra engine wear short term (the test usually ran them 20-40 hours total, though often very hard).

I can see the lower viscosity and syn base really helping with fuel economy, since it's fully two grades below the recommended, but the very low wear numbers from such a long run are a bit more puzzling on the surface to me.

I would wonder if the bypass system isn't catching some of it? I have read that filtration in the 1-2 um range can make UOA metals read lower because the filter is catching a higher percentage of those smaller particles read by the spectrograph. I don't know at what level the Amsoil bypass filters in this case, so I might be off target here, but the proof of the pudding would be to have the bypass filter contents analyzed. Or the engine torn down and wear actually measured. Still, given this engine has nearly 250K miles on it, and at least 50K of that on what are essentially 20 grade oils, the wear can't be excessive or the engine would have long since been in the scrap pile.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Still, given this engine has nearly 250K miles on it, and at least 50K of that on what are essentially 20 grade oils, the wear can't be excessive or the engine would have long since been in the scrap pile.


Engine is now over 280K miles and I just added 12oz of ZMAX to the oil. It is not conclusive yet but the first tank with ZMAX got me a little over 1 mpg extra. If nothing serious happens mechanically I will run this OCI to 35K, maybe 40K. I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.
 
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Engine is now over 280K miles and I just added 12oz of ZMAX to the oil. It is not conclusive yet but the first tank with ZMAX got me a little over 1 mpg extra. If nothing serious happens mechanically I will run this OCI to 35K, maybe 40K. I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.


You are introducing so many variables I don't see how you deduce any consistent cause and effect relationships.
 
Cause and effect for what? I ran 25K without ZMAX and now I am running ZMAX for the next 10K, then use Red Line race oil for 10k after that, and so on and so on. All I care about is minimum fuel burn so what can't you see?
 
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All I care about is minimum fuel burn so what can't you see?


I see your goal is minimum fuel burn, but you stated you're using a NEO 20W, then added Zmax, then you are going to top off with other brands with different additve packages and different viscosities so my question is, how can you attribute mpg increases to any one variable if you acumulate so many variables along the way?
 
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I change one variable at a time for at least 10K miles. Any change in fuel burn should be easily calculated.

I already ran the NEO for 25K as a baseline. Now I am adding ZMAX to the oil for the next 10K. Very easy experiment to calculate fuel burn. What can't you see?
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
you stated you're using a NEO 20W,


I ran NEO 0w5 as stated on the product. What it is is another matter but I have never run NEO 20W.
 
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I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.


By this statement you are going to run the NEO low vis with Zmax, and then topoff with Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil due to consumption along the way?

So eventually, you will have a mix of NEO low vis, Zmax, and some Redline low vis racing oil in the UOA analysis.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

So eventually, you will have a mix of NEO low vis, Zmax, and some Redline low vis racing oil in the UOA analysis.


Let me say it one more time, "I only care about fuel economy". The UOA is to see if I am destroying the engine, and not to reduce engine wear. I am adding ZMAX and then the Red Line oil to thin out the NEO in search for better fuel economy. The race part of the Red Line oil is to prolong any "serious" damage I might be doing to the engine since I am planning on a 35K OCI, at least.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Welcome to the party, are you clueless also?


Seeing as I don't think the same as you, I guess so.
 
Come on guys...give OP a break. I think this is a very cool experiment! He is only interested in MPG! I get it and love what he's doing. Don't you want him to keep us informed? Let him do his thing and just enjoy.
 
We all get that, the one thing I don't get is you want to spend as little on fuel as possible. You will however spend countless dollars on boutique racing oils & oil additives which would pretty much negate any savings at all.

You are basically spending money one way to save it in another. Just doesn't make sense and you appear to be proud of that. Again, fine & all but then jump down the throats of those that question you.

Jim Allen:

Which regards to wear if the bottom ends on TDI's can reach 400k with consumer grade lubricants on factory maintenance schedules I would think 50k of the wrong oil wouldn't injure a think especially if it is at a constant highway rpm.
 
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Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
We all get that, the one thing I don't get is you want to spend as little on fuel as possible. You will however spend countless dollars on boutique racing oils & oil additives which would pretty much negate any savings at all.


Which level of high school math are you at? I need to know this before I can explain to you how I save money. Here are some primers: NEO oil ($30/gallon), ZMAX ($15/quarts), 2T oil ($4/qt), full flow filter ($7 per OCI), Bypass filter ($30 every 50-60K). 25-35K OCI (OEM is 10K), diesel ($4/gallon), 57mpg instead of 44mpg. Can you do the math?

Also, this experiment will apply to my other vehicles in the near future.
 
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Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Which regards to wear if the bottom ends on TDI's can reach 400k with consumer grade lubricants on factory maintenance schedules I would think 50k of the wrong oil wouldn't injure a think especially if it is at a constant highway rpm.


There are plenty of ALH engined TDIs out there still happily motoring along with 200k, 300k, 400k+ miles on stock bottom ends that were tortured at the stealership's disservice department with Syntec 5w30 during the warranty period.

TDT or T6 is far better for them, but I'll be darned if the ALH doesn't seem to care much what's in its crankcase.
 
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