Farm Rated: Extreme Duty 5W-40 Synthetic Blend Dsl

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I'm wondering if some of you could give me some advice on the use of this oil in far sub-zero (F) temperatures. I drive a 2000 VW New Beetle TDI with a 1.9L ALH engine. The manual calls for CF4 or CG4. This stuff is CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL. So good right? And the manual says that for "energy-conserving multigrade oils" 5W-40 is good for all temperatures. And for "regular multigrade oils" 5W-40 is good at less than 60 deg F.

[Now nobody at any oil retailer including the local VW dealer can tell me what the difference is between "energy-conserving multigrade oils" and "regular multigrade oils". They also can't seem to find any "energy-conserving multigrade oils" that are approved for diesel engines, even though its mentioned as the preferred oil in the manual (because its approved for all temps).]

But my real issue is that I bought this stuff hoping it would be good at least for the winter. And now my car won't start below 0 deg F. (Cranks far too slowly to fire) The fuel is #1 (plus I used an additive in case the station lied). The battery is rated at 690 CCA (cold cranking amps), and while there is a 730 CCA battery on the market, I doubt that little extra would make a huge difference at -30 deg F. Also the battery has been load tested and passed.

So I'm thinking this oil is too thick. Am I wrong? Has anyone else had experience with this oil at far sub-zero temps? Thanks for any advice!

...by the way, I know a block heater would be good, but where I park for 12 hr shifts at work I don't have access to a plug. And the dealer swore these things start great in the winter!
 
The oil is probably fine,check your cables(clean)are they heavy enough?(AWG) and starter(poor cranking performance when going bad).
 
I can't speak to what would work well in your application (though a thinner oil would be a good place to start but probably a close second to having your battery tested) but with the SM API specs it would be difficult for a 40 weight oil to be labeled "energy conserving" because the comparison was to a theoretical 10w-30 oil. I'm not sure if that has changed with SN, but I also think (but don't remember) that the zddp content of the "resource conserving" SN oils was lower regardless of weight and that would make a "resource conserving" 40 weight oil a pretty niche product and not really suited to most diesel engines.

Anybody at any oil retailer should be able to look at the API starburst and see if the oil is "energy conserving" (dawn of time up until API SM term) or "resource conserving" (SN term) but the test was (and could still be) fuel consumption vs. a standardized 10w-30 oil.

So have your battery tested and if that checks out consider a 0w-40 oil (mobil 1 is a good one).
 
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Not sure if they're available south of the border, but there are several excellent 0W30 diesel oils available in Canada (Esso/Mobil & Co-op DMO), if you can buy them here, and Shell is bringing out a thinner 0W40 as well (T5?).
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Not sure if they're available south of the border, but there are several excellent 0W30 diesel oils available in Canada (Esso/Mobil & Co-op DMO), if you can buy them here, and Shell is bringing out a thinner 0W40 as well (T5?).

The co-op d-mo 0w-40 caught my attention. Under 30 a gallon and primarily pao. Looks like a good value for the dollar.
I think I'm going to investigate that oil further. I'm not sure if co-op lists the viscosity index.

Op.
Energy conserving means it has friction modifiers in them iirc.
 
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The 5w40 oil is not what is causing your no start condition, though a 30 weight might not hurt for ease of starting.
I would guess your problem is in the glowplug system, the starter, or your battery, even if it did pass a "load test". Who tested it?
 
We had a 2000 NB TDI (traded in on the Mazda) and still have a 2006 Golf TDI.

The #1 thing to check is for proper glow plug operation. First, measure resistance from glowplug to ground - should be 0.4 - 0.8 ohms. Anything that measures above that needs to get replaced, and a good sign you need to replace the entire set. Then make sure you're actually getting power to the GPs with a test light and the key turned to the on position.

The 2000 models have a two-wire glowplug harness, which you can bridge to stop it from setting a CEL for GP resistance imbalance between the two circuits. I did this to ours and it stopped us from getting a CEL every couple months. Still started up just fine in the cold.

Other than that, you need at least 200 RPM cranking speed before the ECU will allow fuel to be injected. Assuming your injection timing is correct and the nozzles are still good, less than 200 RPMs will always result in a no-start. The starter itself may be on its way out, the cable between it and the battery, etc...

Battery choice is very important. NBs take a group 48 battery, which I believe has 730 CCA. I preferred the Bosch batteries from Pep Girls, and I got at least 18 months life out of them as the NB wasn't driven frequently (and I didn't always remember to put the trickle charger on it). 3 years free replacement warranty meant we got 2 free ones, each due to a shorted cell.

Other than that, you can try out Mobil 1 0w40 which works very well in 2003-and-earlier TDIs. But if you're running a synthetic 5w40 oil, the difference in cold weather starting may not be that much. Did somebody put 15w40 mineral oil in it?

Normally, any CJ-4 5w40 oil works beautifully in these engines for at least 10k mile OCIs - Schaeffer 9000, Shell Rotella T6, Amsoil DEO, Mobil 1 0w40 or Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, etc... but if you're that far north, you might consider one of the 0w offerings from Petro Canada.

You've probably got several things going on at once, but operational glowplugs, the beefiest group 48 battery you can lay your hands on, a known good starter and a 0w oil would all help quite a bit. It doesn't get as cold in Chicago, but ours never failed to start in subzero temps.

And I wholeheartedly recommend adding a Zerostart coolant heater. I love getting into my Golf on cold mornings (like today, when it was -1ºF/-19ºC) and having it fire right up like it's a warm spring day. I don't get a chance to plug in at work either, but at least it's on less deep cold start a day.
 
He said "it cranks to slow to fire" certainly glows would have a consider impact on this problem but so would, if not more cranking RPMS,he needs to address the above suggestions and go from there.
 
Assuming that the electrics check out (clean connections on battery), and I am assuming that the battery was properly load-tested, I think this situation screams for a synthetic oil. If you use M1 in 0w40 (or even the 5w40 "truck diesel" M1), or Rotella T6 in 5w40, I think that you can be pretty certain that the oil is not the issue.

Also, is this brand of oil something folks have heard of? What is it that would make you choose "Farm Rated: Extreme Duty" for a older diesel New Beetle."
 
The "Energy Conserving" label can only be applied to oils below 40-weight. 5w40 would be the oil grade I would recommend for your diesel Beetle in a Minnesota winter.

If your starter and cranking system are in good working order, is your glow plug (or intake grid heater) system working? Now for a potentially stupid question: Are you allowing sufficient time for the "Wait to Start" light to go out when your turn the key to run?

I had to start my Dodge last night at 7F without using the block heater, and it was really grumpy about it. And I'm using RT6 5w40.
 
If I recall correctly, some of the TDI engines (including the 99 New Beetle I owned) had ECU issues that caused excessive cranking before the engine would start. Info can be found on tdiclub.com. My Beetle had this issue, and would randomly take an extra 5 or so seconds to start, even when warm. I also had winter starting issues, and the longer cranking did not help one bit, often causing my battery to die. Finally bit the bullet and bought a new battery, and winter starting was never a problem again.
 
Check ALL your connections. Perform a voltage drop test and starter draw test. Sounds like an electrical system fault to me.
 
What are the specs on this oil?
It may be that it's thicker than you think at the temperatures you're seeing.
I know that with my old MB diesels, which were mechanical and would inject fuel whenever the engine turned, cold starting was hard if too thick an oil were used too early in the spring.
Been there, done that.
This may simply be a case of an oil that's too thick to allow adequate cranking speed at the temperatures you're seeing.
I'd drain and replace this stuff first, farm rated or not, and if that doesn't fix your problem, proceed from there.
I like to start with the easy stuff first and that often works.
 
There are very good suggestions here. Checking glow plugs and maybe installing a coolant heater (scurvy) and other electrical tests (GSCJR) are wise ideas. MN can get pretty darned cold and I wouldn't want to be doing unaided winter starts in a diesel there, much less here, regardless of what oil you had in the crank case.

It also doesn't hurt to check the cold cranking specs on the oil you're using, as fdcg27 suggested. There can be some pretty wide variations within grades. Heck, compare XOM's and Petro-Canada's 10w-30 HDEO offerings if you want to see a rather wide disparity within a grade.
 
Originally Posted By: Christopher Hussey
If I recall correctly, some of the TDI engines (including the 99 New Beetle I owned) had ECU issues that caused excessive cranking before the engine would start. Info can be found on tdiclub.com. My Beetle had this issue, and would randomly take an extra 5 or so seconds to start, even when warm.


98 - 99.5 mk4 ECUs have a hot restart issue. It was fixed in model year 2000 vehicles.

The ECU map in question does not affect cold starts.
 
Well, thanks everyone for a lot of good advice. I'm going to have to look into the cold cranking specs for the oil. I've never heard of that and wonder where I'd look it up? As to why I bought the Farm Rated Extreme Duty instead of one of the better known brands...Price. It was half the cost and still boasts all the same specs as the brand name oils. My understanding from another thread here is that it is made by Citgo though it doesn't say so anywhere on the bottle. Now its always possible that they lied about the specs for this cheap oil, but I hope not.

Also, I decided yesterday night to go get a new battery. Even though the old one tested okay, it was 5 years old I found, so I thought it couldn't hurt. It did help this morning, but it was pretty warm out (0 deg F
smile.gif
...

Despite the new battery though it still doesn't start well. I had to make 12 attempts before it finally caught. Someone on myturbodiesel.com recommended that I change the timing belt. It is due for a change, so I'll probably try that in the spring. Anyone here have experience with timing affecting cold starts?

Someone here mentioned that I should check that the glow plugs are getting power with a test light. I hadn't thought of that and I'll check. The plugs are good and the wait light comes on with the ignition, and I guess I just assumed that meant it was working....but I'll check.
 
Doesn't M1 0w-40 carry some diesel certs. If you can use it maybe try it out. At this point your vehicle is a boat anchor and useless if it won't start.
I'd get the biggest battery that will fit,try out the thinnest oil that will work and look into a recirculating coolant heater.
The recirc coolant heater is plumbed into a coolant line. It gets the coolant hot enough to open the thermostat and flow hot coolant into the block.
I don't know if they are even available anymore.
I had a propane powered van. It wouldn't start in the extreme cold because the propane would stay liquid and flood the engine. Being that the entire intake was sealed it would take 5 hours before the flooded condition would evaporate.
The propane was fed into the intake through some plumbing,this plumbing went through a heater that heated the incoming propane with coolant,helping it atomize. I found these recirc coolant heaters and it solved my problem because it would feed warm coolant into the manifold,heating the propane.
If they are even still offered that's what I would do if I were you. Then battery and oil would be a mute point.
Or perhaps an oil pan heater. It would heat the oil enough that the engine cranking over would be a non issue. That's likely your cheapest and least intrusive option.
One thing about the recirc coolant heater is that the van heater blew hot air instantly. No freezing while waiting for the engine to warm up
Anyways I hope you get er figured out. A non start condition is very hard to swallow when you're already late for work.
Good luck.
 
Originally Posted By: psteichen
Anyone here have experience with timing affecting cold starts?


Retarded injection timing will drastically affect cold starting ability. If you can find someone nearby with VCDS, adjust the timing so it's as advanced as possible but within spec.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Doesn't M1 0w-40 carry some diesel certs. If you can use it maybe try it out.


M1 0w40 is an excellent oil for this car in psteichen's climate. I would use it year-round.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The recirc coolant heater is plumbed into a coolant line. It gets the coolant hot enough to open the thermostat and flow hot coolant into the block.
I don't know if they are even available anymore.

I have a kilowatt Zerostart plumbed into the coolant line in my Golf. No pump - works by thermosyphon. Makes cold weather starts easy peasy and I get usable heat much, much quicker.
 
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