Advantages of Synthetic Base Oils

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Originally Posted By: electrolover
It costs like $40 to get a dino oil change at jiffy lube. It costs me the same to do it myself with synthetic and a premium filter.
Thats how I justify using syn when I really dont need it.
lol.gif

I know my reasoning is flawed, but don't point it out and I will keep ignoring that part. Haha


Haha I agree! I`m sure I don`t need it,but I want it :^) $24 for a jug M1,$6 for a filter.
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
It costs like $40 to get a dino oil change at jiffy lube. It costs me the same to do it myself with synthetic and a premium filter.
Thats how I justify using syn when I really dont need it.
lol.gif

I know my reasoning is flawed, but don't point it out and I will keep ignoring that part. Haha


That's perfectly fine. If you sleep easier at night that's fine. If your relationship with your significant other is better because you're using synth, all the power to you. At least you know where you stand instead of inventing bogus claims to desperately prove your point.

But it's posts like few above claiming engine failures, or including some bogus math just to prove a point of their "superior" choice that bug me, because these claims, if not colled out, soon become gospel.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: electrolover
It costs like $40 to get a dino oil change at jiffy lube. It costs me the same to do it myself with synthetic and a premium filter.
Thats how I justify using syn when I really dont need it.
lol.gif

I know my reasoning is flawed, but don't point it out and I will keep ignoring that part. Haha


That's perfectly fine. If you sleep easier at night that's fine. If your relationship with your significant other is better because you're using synth, all the power to you. At least you know where you stand instead of inventing bogus claims to desperately prove your point.

But it's posts like few above claiming engine failures, or including some bogus math just to prove a point of their "superior" choice that bug me, because these claims, if not colled out, soon become gospel.


Agreed!
On a personal note. When my wife and I got our explorer it had always had quick lube oil changes with pyb and qsgb at 3k. It was documented. At 100k it looked like it was just built. I have posted the filller hole pics many times.

Its now at 130k and the only thing we have ever had to do to the engine was tune up, replace the egr and replace a cracked plastic thermostat housing.
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
And again where are all those vehicles that "died" early?
They have been posted on this forum. Look for Honda Pilot and Honda 3.5 over the last few days.

And corrected math: Cost of conventional change at dealer: $20 + $3/quart
[$32]
Cost of synthetic change at dealer: $20 + $5/quart
[$40]
So instead of $632 for my gasoline + conventional oil I'm spending $640 for synthetic runs. Mot a big deal. Only 2% savings.


If you keep this ignorance up.....well it wont be good
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
It costs like $40 to get a dino oil change at jiffy lube. It costs me the same to do it myself with synthetic and a premium filter.
Thats how I justify using syn when I really dont need it.
lol.gif

I know my reasoning is flawed, but don't point it out and I will keep ignoring that part. Haha


+1. I am with you on this one.

Plus I know that I can remove the oil filter and drain plug next time.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Why would you cheap out on an essential like engine lubrication? If you extended a few OCI, you'd get your money back (more or less) and you'd probably get a cleaner engine. Where's the value in cheaping out on engine oil? To save $50 a year on an essential like lubrication for the engine? Just means one less [censored] family dinner at Olive Garden. You were better off at home.


Using your logic, why would YOU cheap out on lubrication? Using a wal mart special, group 3 "synthetic" that has marginally better specs than dino counterparts is definitely cheapening out. Why not put your money where your mouth is and use some uber expensive, all PAO oil that will run you $20 a quart? Why cheapen out?


Because marginally better specs at small differences in price are clearly different than a huge difference in price for a whatever benefit those other oils offer. But you knew that. Synthetics offer at the very least, tiny benefits over a conventional oil. If it so happens that your thermostat goes, an issue with your coolant arises or a few other issues...wouldn't it be better to have synthetic in your engine as they are made to withstand higher temps?
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
It costs like $40 to get a dino oil change at jiffy lube. It costs me the same to do it myself with synthetic and a premium filter.
Thats how I justify using syn when I really dont need it.
lol.gif

I know my reasoning is flawed, but don't point it out and I will keep ignoring that part. Haha


I wouldn't say flawed. I always thought part of DIY was getting better quality for the cost. It's what you're comfortable with that really matters.
 
Let's keep it apples to apples here. dIYers getting their supplies at Walmart will spend, what $20 on conventional oil and an OEM filter and at least $35 on M1 or similar and a long distance filter. So 75% more for synthetic. From the UOAs I've seen on here M1 might consistently go 75% further than PYB, maybe not. So call it a financial draw. But why in the world would you want to let the contaminants that the filter can't trap flow around inside the engine any longer than you absolutely have to? That's what doesn't make sense to me in the whole conv vs synth argument.
 
You definitely can get a ROI using synthetics, however from what I've seen here many do not have the patience to do it. Our UOA section is loaded with 5k oil change samples of full synthetics.

From what I've been able to figure, the average "break even" point on most full syns is about 7,500 miles if you use the same filter as you would the dino. Get into 10k runs and the syn is costing you less.

But then the next question arises. Is full syn with 8k on it a better lube than new dino? Probably not.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Why would you cheap out on an essential like engine lubrication? If you extended a few OCI, you'd get your money back (more or less) and you'd probably get a cleaner engine. Where's the value in cheaping out on engine oil? To save $50 a year on an essential like lubrication for the engine? Just means one less [censored] family dinner at Olive Garden. You were better off at home.


Using your logic, why would YOU cheap out on lubrication? Using a wal mart special, group 3 "synthetic" that has marginally better specs than dino counterparts is definitely cheapening out. Why not put your money where your mouth is and use some uber expensive, all PAO oil that will run you $20 a quart? Why cheapen out?


Because marginally better specs at small differences in price are clearly different than a huge difference in price for a whatever benefit those other oils offer. But you knew that. Synthetics offer at the very least, tiny benefits over a conventional oil. If it so happens that your thermostat goes, an issue with your coolant arises or a few other issues...wouldn't it be better to have synthetic in your engine as they are made to withstand higher temps?


What small difference in price are you talking about. Most OTS synthetics are anywhere from 75%-100% more expensive than equivalent dino offerings. Or are you using sale price of synthetics vs full price for dino,as your "comparison"?

Also you clearly said that using dino vs synthetic is "cheapening out", yet you do exact same thing and all of the sudden it's OK?
crackmeup2.gif

Go tell that to RP, Red Line and Amsoil users, see what you get.
 
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Let's keep it apples to apples here. dIYers getting their supplies at Walmart will spend, what $20 on conventional oil and an OEM filter and at least $35 on M1 or similar and a long distance filter. So 75% more for synthetic. From the UOAs I've seen on here M1 might consistently go 75% further than PYB, maybe not. So call it a financial draw. But why in the world would you want to let the contaminants that the filter can't trap flow around inside the engine any longer than you absolutely have to? That's what doesn't make sense to me in the whole conv vs synth argument.


You can easily spend less than that on synthetic and the filter is usually seen as better quality anyway, isn't it (the extended mile filters)? Every auto parts store near me has a special on synthetic and filter for $30. So 50% more if the $20 price holds true. But instead of looking at percentages, which make the differences seem much greater than they actually are...look at actual numbers. Ten dollars per oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Why would you cheap out on an essential like engine lubrication? If you extended a few OCI, you'd get your money back (more or less) and you'd probably get a cleaner engine. Where's the value in cheaping out on engine oil? To save $50 a year on an essential like lubrication for the engine? Just means one less [censored] family dinner at Olive Garden. You were better off at home.


Using your logic, why would YOU cheap out on lubrication? Using a wal mart special, group 3 "synthetic" that has marginally better specs than dino counterparts is definitely cheapening out. Why not put your money where your mouth is and use some uber expensive, all PAO oil that will run you $20 a quart? Why cheapen out?


Because marginally better specs at small differences in price are clearly different than a huge difference in price for a whatever benefit those other oils offer. But you knew that. Synthetics offer at the very least, tiny benefits over a conventional oil. If it so happens that your thermostat goes, an issue with your coolant arises or a few other issues...wouldn't it be better to have synthetic in your engine as they are made to withstand higher temps?


What small difference in price are you talking about. Most OTS synthetics are anywhere from 75%-100% more expensive than equivalent dino offerings. Or are you using sale price of synthetics vs full price for dino,as your "comparison"?

Also you clearly said that using dino vs synthetic is "cheapening out", yet you do exact same thing and all of the sudden it's OK?
crackmeup2.gif

Go tell that to RP, Red Line and Amsoil users, see what you get.


There are always sale prices, we don't live in a world of full msrp. You can buy deals on oil and plan ahead since you know you'll be changing it again soon enough. I see differences in prices being quoted as percentages a lot because it makes a small amount (10$) seem astronomical by comparison. These are vehicles that average $20,000 new (at the very least). I'm not suggesting one pays double the price for trivial lubricants or fluids, this is engine lubrication. I'm looking for valid reasons to purchase conventional over synthetic, I really am. I'm not rich, but what I certainly don't want to pay for is a new car before its time.
 
For those claiming that synthetics have a "tiny" advantage over conventional, you are more than welcome to provide a professional paper that backs that opinion. All the papers that I've seen on this site (and there have been many) show that synthetics have a substantial advantage. Then again, there are those known cases where conventionals were used in applications that called for synthetics and...lets just say that the damage wasn't tiny.
 
I've been a long time user of synthetics, but I can't always say that I got the best value from them either. I certainly went at least double the conventional OCI, and have never had a problem doing so in all of the years I've been using syn oils. For the most part, I've always used syn oils due to periods of extreme cold when I spend time up north skiing. Not that its necessary, but it sounds better
wink.gif


However, now that I have my Benz, I have made a personal challenge out of NOT changing the prescribed syn oil early! So far, I have 72,000 km on the car, and it has only had 3 oil changes in its entire life. First one was at 20,000 km, second at 40,000 km, and 3rd was at 60,000 km (roughly). I'm very impressed at how the car does NOT use any appreciable amount of oil in 20,000 km OCI's. I check the dip stick regularly, and it hardly moves over that interval. I'm impressed and will continue enjoying less time under the car for the (hopefully long) life of this one.

cheers3.gif
 
I just find it funny how people get over the price of oil. My gasoline expense is far greater than my oil change expense. Cars are expensive, I don't sweat trying to save $1-$4qt on oil because relatively speaking, oil is cheap and engines are not.
 
Hi,
buster - I agree with you. As a user of synthetic lubricants since the 1970s I can assure you that certain vehciles (engines, transmissions) do perform significantly better than when using mineral lubeicanst. In some cases this includes significantly extended life of seals and bearings (drive line), feel (power steering), functionality (engines) soot handling (engines) and etc. This has typically allowed extended OCIs, sometimes in excess of six times that recommended by the Manufacturer.

That said, for me it has always been a cost effective excercise - for some it never will be

I have acquired this attitude from extensive comparative field testing and via a number of Oil Companies products and over a large number of vehicles/equipment Brands and types
 
Besides saving money and knowing the job was done right,I find working on my car to be therapeutic in a sense. I enjoy getting outside and working on my car. Whenever I change the oil,I look over everything,clean the undercarriage,and just enjoy taking care of my car the best I can.
 
People, please stop bashing the other side. I am a synthetic advocate for various reasons. Most importantly though it is because of a conversation I had with a very respected board member who we all know of very well for his very informative posts. Synthetic oils are a better quality fluid, that can't be disputed. The question comes in when perceived benefit is considered.

Cost comparison for the Charger, 6qts @2 OCs a year with Puro Classic filter using Walmart prices:
VWB: $24.43 per oci, $48.86 yearly cost, $244.30 cost after 5 years.
SynPower: $39.35 per oci, $78.70 yearly cost, $393.50 cost after 5 years.

For me, an extra $14.92 per oil change or an extra $149.20 over the course of 5 years is not a big deal. $14.92 isn't even enough for me and my girl to get dinner! I'm willing to spend a little extra for a fluid that I KNOW is better and for a fluid that WILL make my winter starting easier on the engine. Also, I would rather have synthetic in my sump if my thermostat decides to fail, I'm running late and need to be heavier on the throttle straight out of the driveway, I feel like having fun with repeated WOT sprints, or any other circumstance where a synthetic MIGHT protect better. Some may not feel that way, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's hard to go wrong with any oil today, conventional or synthetic, find an oil that meets your specs and your engine will likely live a long life.
 
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Consider this cost example using Walmart pricing and identical filter (FILTER removed from cost comparison). Car driven 24,000 miles per year.

- $10.99 Conventional changed at 4000 miles X 6 changes = 65.94
- $20.99 Synthetic changed at 6000 miles X 4 changes = 83.96
- 960 gallons of fuel used X $3.25/gallon = $3120 in a 25mpg vehicle
- 0.5% increase in fuel efficiency (synthetic) = $15.60

That's $18.02 (in added cost) - $15.60 (in fuel savings) making synthetic $2.42 more expensive.

Since synthetic will offer greater:

- Heat protection
- Cold (start-up) protection
- Varnish resistance
- Sludge protection
- Resistance to thickening

Isn't that worth the $2.42?

Now I ask the question: Is the worst (SN GF-5)*** synthetic better than the best (SN GF-5) conventional ? (Do not include semi-synthetic labelled products in this comparison).

I say yes. I say it's impossible for it not to be. A synthetic base stock always wins.
If you say it depends on the add-pack, then I ask you to show me a single example, of an SN GF-5 synthetic, with a BAD add-pack, sold anywhere in the United States.


*** I'm using SN GF-5 for convenience of comparison. Any equally spec'd conventional and synthetic can be contrasted.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I just find it funny how people get over the price of oil. My gasoline expense is far greater than my oil change expense. Cars are expensive, I don't sweat trying to save $1-$4qt on oil because relatively speaking, oil is cheap and engines are not.



This is my take as well. I have used many conventional and synthetic oils, and i personally prefer synthetic. Do i pay full price for it? no way. I buy it when its on sale or clearance, regardless of brand. if i cant find synthetic on sale i gladly go buy MS5K or trop artic syn blend for $3.50 a qt.

The point is if i can buy RP for $4.00 a qt like the previous i bought, ill pay 50 cents a qt more. I am interested in saving money, but if we are comparing MS5K to RP for a difference of 50 Cents im going to buy the RP all day long. I love the mobil super line of oils, i have since they came out, and i use them. I however, will continue to use synthetics more often as long as i keep stumbling across great rebates and clearances.
 
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