mtb suspensions?

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ok im trying to understand different suspensions like dw link, horscht link, maestro, VPP, etc? It seems to me the maestro is like a double wishbone kinda? Am I completely wrong? Any info on these suspensions is appreciated! Or personal experience!
 
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I wouldn't try to compare the suspension designs on bike with those on cars, since the dynamics are completely different. In a vehicle, the wheels are suspended perpendicular to the suspension pivots.

The purpose of the fancy new "floating pivot" bikes like dw, Maestro, and VPP are to reduce the influence of pedaling on suspension action (dw, VPP, Maestro are just corporate names for a floating suspension pivot). While they go about it several different ways, those 3 systems (and others) are functionally very similar. Basically, the path of the rear wheel through suspension travel ends up being some version of an S or C instead of a simple (.

Horst link is most associated with the Specialized FSR name. It's a glorified single pivot with a second pivot on the chainstay. It's largely outdated due to the "floating" designs mentioned above but still rides very nice. In my experience, FSR bikes have the plushest, smoothest suspension action of any of the designs, but at the expense of pedaling stability and, to a lesser extent, rear end torsional rigidity.

Older suspension systems that are largely out of date are single pivot types with rigid rear triangles. These put the path of the rear wheel at a simple arc, as you would assume. The major disadvantage is that almost all pedaling action ends up in the suspension which necessitates a shock with some kind of internal valving.
 
Thank you Cchase! I know all suspensions seem to claim active braking suspensions. I saw a video of a Santa cruz with a VPP suspension and the bike was turned upside down and somebody was pedaling the bike and then hit the brakes. The pedals then kicked back badly. Then saw a specialized with a horscht link and they did the same thing with very little kick back. Is the FSR your favorite suspension?
 
I've ridden (and sell) Giant (Maestro) bikes. They are very, very nice and I don't think I could highlight any real drawbacks to that system. Most of the Santa Cruz (VPP) bikes I've ridden I did not like, but I don't know whether to point the finger at VPP and the suspension travel path SC has chosen or whether I just don't like the geometry of the bikes.

As far as brake jack, I was not aware that any of the virtual pivot bikes suffered greatly from it. The ones I've ridden felt at least mostly active under braking, unlike my ancient single pivot downhill bike that completely locks the rear suspension up under rear braking. There are (or were) floating mounts available for single pivot downhill bikes to isolate braking forces, but I'm not sure whether they are still available, and they likely aren't feasible unless it's a dedicated downhill rig.

I personally ride a Titus Motolite that uses the FSR design. I chose it over the Giant Maestro because the suspension just FEELS better to me. I do long trail rides, I've raced XC, and I put many miles on the bike on the road. The pedal bob can be frustrating but its more than made up for (for me) with the quality of suspension. For lack of a better word, it's buttery. The virtual bikes just don't feel as active. My RP23 shock has 2 valve positions, and the firmer position functionally locks out the suspension which is fine for me on longer rides on the road... reach down and flip a lever on the shock and fork, and it's a rigid.

With that said, it's worth riding different bikes. Geometry alone will make bikes feel very different, independent of suspension design. That may be the selling point for a customer.
 
Thats great! Thanks a lot for that review and info!
 
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I'm a big fan of Giant suspension although I have not ridden much in their newish stuff aside from the Glory DH bike and the Reign X series. I do love Giant bikes though and a lot to do with that is the feel of the bikes, at least in their gravity line, they have a shorter wheelbase and they are incredibly nimble feeling. I have FSR suspension on my SX Trail (Specialized) and I really love it as well. The SX is a legend of a bike though, immense popularity, most people understand why when they ride mine. It has a slightly longer and lower feel to it than the equivalent Giant.

I know you are trying to learn about the suspensions but if the reason is to find out about what kind of bike you want, you really just have to get out and see what works for you best.
 
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