AGM batteries as regular lead-acid replacement

[asand1]

Originally Posted By: meep

what industrial batt did you source? i'm curious as I would love to look at the same...

M

Werker WKA12-55P/FR Pictured above. I would call it industrial, but I cold be giving it too much credit. This came out of a two battery bank in a fire panel. Replced yearly regardless of condition.

 

[WhyMe]

Oddesey AGM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-wqckJ2nM

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: meep

what industrial batt did you source? i'm curious as I would love to look at the same...

M

Werker WKA12-55P/FR Pictured above. I would call it industrial, but I cold be giving it too much credit. This came out of a two battery bank in a fire panel. Replced yearly regardless of condition.
That is not an industrial battery.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: asand1
After thoroughly reading OP, I will say this. You need a higher output alternator for that sound system because you are draining the battery faster than you can charge it. Sitting for weeks at a time also allows the BCM to drain the battery. You are essentially deep cycling a starting battery. An auto-start device to start the car once a day would be cool, probably doesn't exist in an automotive form though.


According to this http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm AGM will cycle deeper and more times than Flooded cell batteries.



I have serious issues with that link/article. An automotive AGM SLI(Starting Lighting and Ignition) battery vs a Flooded SLI battery MAY have better deep cycle characteristics (I’m very skeptical of this) but the flooded starting battery is in no way designed to be a deep cycle and a distinction should be made. Additionally any SLI AGM, Gel or Flooded battery that is used in a deep cycle application will fail very prematurely.

Further more, AGM is intolerant of over overcharging, Gel is extremely intolerant of over charging. Both designs are also extremely intolerant of heat. In industrial battery field, (were I work), and in stationary field(where I have some expirence), these AGM & Gel batteries must not exceed 115 degrees f and voltages not to exceed 2.45 and 2.37 volts per cell (VPC) respectively for any period of time or permanent, irreversible damage will occur. This is for industrial and stationary batteries/cells/strings which are of an infinitely more robust design than automotive SLI.

In a comparison of AGM & Gel(both starved electrolyte designs) vs Flooded deep cycle batteries with regard to capacity, depth of discharge (DOD) and number of cycles before a battery is deemed to be spent, flooded batteries are far superior. In point of fact, the article has it backwards with respect to DOD and life. The starved electrolyte technologies can only be discharged to 50% in order to achieve the same number of discharge cycles as a flooded deep cycle battery which is discharged to 80%.

I personally would never consider these (AGM & Gel) batteries for an automotive application. They have there applications which they excel but again automotive SLI is not one of them.

In the industrial world the AGM & Gel have been an abysmal failure. Their net result was twice the cost, half the capacity and half the life.

Edit: I don't mean the above to be an attack on you asand1.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
Oddesey AGM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-wqckJ2nM

I see Exide,GNB,Enersys etc... is spewing the same inlfated marketing hyperbole they do in the industrial industry. At least they are consistant. I got about thirty seconds into that guys presentation before I started to chuckel and had to turn it off.

That plant is filthy by the way.

 

[asand1]

Its evident you know what your talking about so I won't argue the better battery. What I will say is that my Nissan charges agm just fine, and in three years its been awesome.
In bumper to bumper LA or Pheonix traffic it may be different. I guess its a matter of ymmv.

 

[The Critic]

My friend runs Diehard Platinums in his G35 ($220 a pop) and has not had any issues in years.

I would consider a yellow-top, as others have suggested.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: asand1
Its evident you know what your talking about so I won't argue the better battery. What I will say is that my Nissan charges agm just fine, and in three years its been awesome.
In bumper to bumper LA or Pheonix traffic it may be different. I guess its a matter of ymmv.
I'm sure your Nissan charges it just fine. Your voltage regulator should be close enough for an AGM.

The problem comes when the AGM battery heats up because of the ambient engine compartment temperature and normal heating form recharging/discharging. As the battery, any battery, heats up the on charge voltage decreases, thus taking more current from the alternator/generator/battery charger. This called a thermal runaway the voltage keeps dropping and the current keeps increasing making the situation worse. Heat is very detrimental to flooded batteries but much more so the Sealed Valve Regulated Lead Acid (SVRLA) AGM & Gel batteries.

An AGM or flooded for that matter would be much better served by being mounted in a remote location (out of the engine compartment) in the vehicle. If you can control battery temperature an AGM is probably fine but IMO offers no significant advantage in the automotive environment.

I’m not trying to pick on your or single you out. But understand these batteries, AGM, are in the automotive market place because they are a much, much higher profit item than the flooded counter parts. Not because they are better in that application. There is a lot of marketing misinformation out there about these AGM’s.

 

[CBR.worm]

I found my Pepboys receipt and realized that the batttery was less than three years old, so I took it to pep boys yestreday morning (30 minutes away) for the free replacement. After over two hours of sitting there, they said my battery was fine and gave me a receipt showing that it was good and fully charged, which I was pretty sure it wasn't. I was going to just buy a replacement while I was there, but was frustrated so I left, what was supposed to be a quick morning trip extended past lunch time. I brought the old battery home and just for kicks, swapped batteries between my FX and G. I drove the FX about 50 miles last night to my parents to drop off the kids (yay!). This morning the FX won't start - probably made three compression strokes before stopping and clicking. The G did. Big surprise. The good news is that my G now has a working Interstate battery, and I will put a new battery in the FX, the bad news is that I had to move the two baby seats to my G35 to go pick them up. I called Pepboys this morning, they said until the battery fails on their Accurate Battery Analyzer OTC-3170, they cannot replace it under warranty, the guy I talked to seemed reasonable but unable to do anything other than offer to test it again.

I suspect if I brought in the working Interstate battery to be tested, the results would be that it requires replacement.

So on my way south, I stopped at pep boys and bought another battery. I would have bought another one and left yesterday, but making me sit there for over 2 hours is ridiculous. Everytime I asked them, they gave me a different number as to the test length. The machine said 17 minutes when it started, an hour later it was at 44 minutes, and apparently shortly thereafter the test was aborted and had to restart - including a full discharge and charge cycle! Ultimately I figured that Pep boys doesn't care if I do or don't buy the battery from them, and why put myself out to go somewhere farther when I know their battery lasts almost three years. I decided not to buy the odyssey AGM battery I was looking at because I didn't want to waste any more time (90 mile round trip to buy it) on this battery - and I don't really want to pay twice as much to add 13 more pounds to the car. If the odyssey battery was lighter, I would have done it in an instant.

So, case closed.

Thanks!

 

[martinq]

I'm on my second Odyssey AGM battery after over 9 years on the first, and I can't imagine ever going back to the heavy, dangerous, corroding flooded-types. I'd be thrilled to find a battery that was better performing, smaller, lighter, more cost-effective or more reliable.

The Odyssey I was running (PC680) was about 1/3 the weight of the OE. The new one (PC625) is lighter and has a higher CCA and reserve ratings.

Unlike flooded batteries, this one was shipped right to my door. The only driving I had to do was to drop the old one off for recycling and get some $$$ in return.

 

[dailydriver]

Just for everyone's info;

I was told today by the Sears service peeps that their Die Hard Platinum series is no longer made by EnerSys/Odyssey, but by East Penn (I'm guessing at their Deka plant???), IF that matters to anyone.

 

[CBR.worm]

Hmmm, that is interesting too. I figured I would get the diehard/odyssey once the other battery wore out for the FX. Maybe I will order it online from odyssey when the time comes.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Just for everyone's info;

I was told today by the Sears service peeps that their Die Hard Platinum series is no longer made by EnerSys/Odyssey, but by East Penn (I'm guessing at their Deka plant???), IF that matters to anyone.
That's an improvement!

 

[rslifkin]

I'd always heard good things about Odyssey (never used one though), but I like East Penn batteries a lot. I've got a Duracell branded (made by East Penn) group 34 marine deep cycle AGM in the Jeep. I work it pretty hard (drained to 50% quite a few times, Jeep still starts right up).

Running an AGM in place of a flooded cell is certainly not a problem, the charge voltages and such are pretty compatible. The only one that would be an issue is a gel-cell, which need slightly lower charging voltages (and aren't common anyway).

 

[dailydriver]

I wish that the reps from both EnerSys and east Penn/Deka would come on here and give us their reasons/sales pitches as to why we should choose one over the other (besides the convenience of buying/warrantying at the MANY Sears stores in this land).