auto sound: 6.5 vs 6x9

[JHZR2]

Practically speaking, for the same range of speakers from the same manufacturer, which will have the best sound quality and bass response? Id assume that a 6x9, with a bit more surface area, can move air a bit better and help with the lower bass... But is there a compromise here? Is one better than the other practically speaking?

Thanks!

 

[97prizm]

From reading various automotive books the 6x9 will give you slightly better bass over the 6.5" all things being equal. There are many myths out there that the 6x9s are less clear due to being oval etc, but a well made 6x9 can sound equally as well as a well made 6.5.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Practically speaking, for the same range of speakers from the same manufacturer, which will have the best sound quality and bass response? Id assume that a 6x9, with a bit more surface area, can move air a bit better and help with the lower bass... But is there a compromise here? Is one better than the other practically speaking?

Thanks!


As far as bass, I've never been happy with how "bassy" a non-sub speaker aftermarket speaker was. If you want added bass you'll have to get a sub. This isn't because the speaker isn't a good speaker, but rather, the mids and the highs are so much clearer and more crisp over the stock speakers that the bass is lost imo. To answer your question more specifically, in theory the 6x9 should have more bass. However, in reality I doubt one could tell the difference between the two sizes.

This is just a theory and am not sure how much factual data there is to support this. I'm interested in what others have on the topic.

 

[OilFool]

When the voice coil pushes up on a round cone, force is linear.
When it pushes up on an oval cone, force is not linear.
The 6" side of the 6x9 will flex less then the 9" sides.

From my experience, 6x9's, no matter the brand, do not last as long because of that.


If it's a stock system, headunit and speakers, it CAN be hard to find a speaker that will be the proper ohm rating.

In a Toyota Sienna Symphony, it was [censored] near impossible to find a nice 6.5 with a 2-2.5 ohm rating. Old Image Dynamics and such were the last I remember when I was in the field.
Needless to say, I dropped some 4ohm Macrom 6.5's in and they are not as loud as the rear anymore due to not pulling the same power as the rear.
Fade to front, and problem "fixed"... rear speakers pull the soundstage backwards anyway.

(If you are getting a sub, and you plan on replacing all four door speakers... Spluge on the fronts, forget the rears. The fronts when properly powered will fill the whole car with sound and not pull the sound stage to the rear.


I have about $12k of audio I was going to put into my Tacoma until it was keyed and paint never matched. So much for the shows and the system...

Front stage:
Phoenix Gold Ti Elites... Made by Morel.
4 9's
4 6.5's
2 5.25
4 1's
And all crossovers to go with.


This is just part of something that never happened:

 

[Hermann]

What kind of vehicle and where are they being mounted. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Johnny248]

A 6x9 speaker could produce more low end freq than a 6.5" since it does have more cone area. Cone area + excursion = bass. That being said, there are many other factors that will determine 6x9 vs 6.5" performance. A 6x9 in a rear deck does not perform the same as it does in a door. You will not get as much bass in a door as you would in a rear deck installation. If you are talking about just simply installing some coaxial speakers, I would replaced the original drivers with whatever size they were. If you installing components and amplifiers, etc you are far better off going with a 6.5" setup. There are far more options for 6.5" mid drivers than there are 6x9's. Also, if you are looking for something high end, you will have a hard time finding a high end 6x9 setup. Currently in my truck,I replaced the front door 6x9's with a 6.5" mid and kept the factory size 6x9 in the rear doors and just installed a quality driver for the rear fill.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: OilFool


This is just part of something that never happened:

Wow, haven't seen those ESX amplifiers in a long time. In their time they were pretty impressive. Zed made amplifiers with features that were not around back then. Do you still have them?

 

[OilFool]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: OilFool


This is just part of something that never happened:

Wow, haven't seen those ESX amplifiers in a long time. In their time they were pretty impressive. Zed made amplifiers with features that were not around back then. Do you still have them?


Yep. There are more too. But it was the only pics I have because I never took any of the subs and the rest that came later on.
All the PG Ti Elites are brandy new. Nothing has ever seen power except the ESX amps and the subs for break in.

The ESX amps were way ahead of their time, and may be one of the most versatile to this day. BUT, everything is made in China/Taiwan now.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Hermann
What kind of vehicle and where are they being mounted. Makes all the difference in the world.


These installs would be in an 81 and 82 MB. The 81 is a sedan, the 82 is a coupe. Both have the same setup, they are M4 size speakers in the front (3.5" speakers fit as do some 4" speakers, depending upon the tweeter protrusion), and the OE size is 5.25 in the rear, IIRC.

6.5 and 6x9 would fit assuming they are fairly shallow, as there is a nice indent in the sheetmetal below the parcel shelf that they are mounted into. The OE grills are good for 5.25 speakers, but if not gawdy, Id consider changing the rears to something larger.

My intent would be to add an amplifier, like one of the Alpine class D 4ch. amps.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What kind of vehicle and where are they being mounted. Makes all the difference in the world.


These installs would be in an 81 and 82 MB. The 81 is a sedan, the 82 is a coupe. Both have the same setup, they are M4 size speakers in the front (3.5" speakers fit as do some 4" speakers, depending upon the tweeter protrusion), and the OE size is 5.25 in the rear, IIRC.

6.5 and 6x9 would fit assuming they are fairly shallow, as there is a nice indent in the sheetmetal below the parcel shelf that they are mounted into. The OE grills are good for 5.25 speakers, but if not gawdy, Id consider changing the rears to something larger.

My intent would be to add an amplifier, like one of the Alpine class D 4ch. amps.


I am currently running Alpine PDX amps in both of my vehicles (I'm assuming this is what you mean by Alpine class D 4-ch) In my Eclipse I have a PDX 4.100 driving the front and rear speakers, and a PDX 1.600 driving the subwoofer. In my truck I have a PDX F6 powering the front and rear, and a PDX M12 powering the subs. I like this amps a lot, mostly because of their small footprint and the fact that they are stackable.

As far as the 6x9's in the parcel shelf, is there enough depth if you enlarge the holes for a 6x9? With a setup like that, and depending on only 4" drivers in the front, I would squeeze a good 6x9 in the rear if you can make it happen. Given that most "Car Audio" 3.5"-4" speakers from your big names like Pioneer, Kenwood, etc are somewhat lackluster, My choice would be to go for either a full range or mid driver of quality such Vifa, Audax, Seas. Partsexpress has a 4" Dayton 4ohm full range which I've used before and had a good opinion of. You can find these at Madisound or Partsexpress. This route would give you a driver that will work with higher power, and perform much better than a run of the mill coax. Just my two cents...

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: OilFool
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: OilFool


This is just part of something that never happened:

Wow, haven't seen those ESX amplifiers in a long time. In their time they were pretty impressive. Zed made amplifiers with features that were not around back then. Do you still have them?


Yep. There are more too. But it was the only pics I have because I never took any of the subs and the rest that came later on.
All the PG Ti Elites are brandy new. Nothing has ever seen power except the ESX amps and the subs for break in.

The ESX amps were way ahead of their time, and may be one of the most versatile to this day. BUT, everything is made in China/Taiwan now.


They were great amps. Problem was is that they were beyond the normal guy who wanted a system in his ride. They were way ahead of their time. Those amps were made my Stephen Mantz who has a pretty impressive history in of amps back in the day. His company still is making amps, hand crafted in the good 'ol USA. Check it out if you are not familiar with them.

http://www.zedaudiocorp.com/

and can be purchased at

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Given that most "Car Audio" 3.5"-4" speakers from your big names like Pioneer, Kenwood, etc are somewhat lackluster, My choice would be to go for either a full range or mid driver of quality such Vifa, Audax, Seas. Partsexpress has a 4" Dayton 4ohm full range which I've used before and had a good opinion of. You can find these at Madisound or Partsexpress. This route would give you a driver that will work with higher power, and perform much better than a run of the mill coax. Just my two cents...


Yes I was thinking of going this route since there notionally would be no fit issues then.

I assume Im not giving up much not having a "2-way" speaker up front? The OE which doesnt sound bad, is a full range paper...

 

[jkhawaii]

If you are going to install a sub I would say to go with the 6 1/2. No sub? 6x9

 

[Hermann]

I would try to get a 6 x 9 in the rear deck. The trunk makes a nice baffle, so you will get decent bass response. When I was in the electronics biz you could make a nice sounding system for $200-$300 with a deck with a 12w RMS deck and a decent set of speakers in the rear shelf. If the holes in the rear are not big enough for 6 X 9 it can be a bit of a job, but worth the results.

 

[JHZR2]

Im keeping the stock deck as aftermarket looks way gawdy in an older car. I've gotten mine refurbished by Becker and even have an aux-in.

But I'll take the speaker level signal and amplify it.

The trunk is not a baffle here, the car is isolated enough, and with a fuel tank inbetween, that it doesn't reay connect to make a sound difference. This has been verified many times with these cars.

So more bass is either by an underseat super slim sub, or just by the speakers.

 

[dwcopple]

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Im keeping the stock deck as aftermarket looks way gawdy in an older car. I've gotten mine refurbished by Becker and even have an aux-in.

But I'll take the speaker level signal and amplify it.

The trunk is not a baffle here, the car is isolated enough, and with a fuel tank inbetween, that it doesn't reay connect to make a sound difference. This has been verified many times with these cars.

So more bass is either by an underseat super slim sub, or just by the speakers.

I have Nakamichi CD400 in my S2000 since 2005, it looks almost the same as OEM head unit, no dancing graphic just a simple LCD display. It is a single CD player with AM/FM, RMS power is 4x12W.

If you're looking for a good head unit with elegant/simple styling then Nakamichi should be on your list. If my CD400 ever go bad I will replace it with Nakamichi MB-VI 6-disc CD changer.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Hermann
What kind of vehicle and where are they being mounted. Makes all the difference in the world.


Exactly. HUGELY dependent on many factors.

IME a 6X9 is a great low budget option and can sound really good, but that would depend on a host of other factors. Placement is only one of them.

A sub does not always cure every problem, and some cars generate surprisingly good sound without one IMO. But the next guy may not agree who sits in the exact same car!

 

[JHZR2]

Well a sub will be extremely hard to do since there is no real connectivity from the trunk to the cabin. These w123 mercedes have the fuel tank in between and so there is no real connectivity of space. Putting a sub in the trunk, for example, is well known to be worthless.

But Im considering mounting the amp under the passenger seat, so I doubt that Ill have space for a sub too. And Im not sure if a need boomy.

We will see. I want to get the amp and main speakers set up first and then I can make a decision. In my 240D, which I plan to keep much closer to stock (i.e. no cutting of rear parcel shelf to accomodate larger speakers), all Ill need is a 4ch amp.

My desired approach is to go with the Alpine amps, and first buy a 4ch, install into the 300CD, do whatever mods I do, see how I like it. If I HAVE to figure out a sub setup under a seat or whatnot, then I will and take the 4ch out, put it in the 240D, and replace it with a 5ch.

If I like it as-is, then Ill just replicate the setup in the 240.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I use a small 100w mono amp with a 6.5 JL sub in my vans. I made a tiny little box with a port and made it fit right under my seat.

With upgraded door speakers and some tiny surface mount tweeters you can hardly even tell I have a stereo, but the sound will surprise anyone but the kids with the ghetto boom.

Cheap but effective, and in a work van you have no room for big anything.