P0008 Code finally caught up with me

[GMBoy]

Hello all. Many of you know that I and my father each own 2008 fully loaded Cadillac CTS's with the 3.6DI. They've been good cars but I know the timing chain issues with the 3.6 High Feature engines (used in many GM vehicles) and have prepared myself for whenever it happens. I think it's coming now, lol.

My dad always went by the OLM running 10-12k mile changes with Redline oil and he had his chains replaced under warranty at the 42k mile mark. They also did the reprogram at this time to reduce the OLM miles.

I always changed my oil between 5-6,000 miles using Mobil 1. I have 72k miles on the car so basically I think my more frequent oil changes just extended my failure mode a bit. The warranty on these engines have been extended to 10 years/120k miles so the repair is covered and a Cadillac loaner is provided. I got the check engine light today and my Tech 2 shows P0008 and that related to the chain issue 98% of the time.

So - I hate the thought of my car being torn down for this level of repair, but looks like it's needed and I'm not paying for it. I take the car in Monday so I will keep you all informed. One good thing is that this dealership is right down the road from my GM plant and they know me pretty well so maybe my car will get the white glove treatment, lol.

 

[antiqueshell]

Wow, only 72k car's been treated with care, and the timing chain is going out already?

This is why I prefer timing belts. Sure chains supposedly last longer, BUT, when there are problems or replacement needed it is a HUGE, and often times expensive job!

 

[gathermewool]

It's a shame that you two used such different oils. A correlation between OCI and failure is hard enough with only two cars, but with two different oils, it's darned near impossible to say whether your OCI affected anything, IMO.

Is the fix a permanent fix or a replacement with more of the same? Forgive me, but I don't know much about this.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It's a shame that you two used such different oils. A correlation between OCI and failure is hard enough with only two cars, but with two different oils, it's darned near impossible to say whether your OCI affected anything, IMO.

Is the fix a permanent fix or a replacement with more of the same? Forgive me, but I don't know much about this.



There is an updated timing chain kit..atleast I hope it is the fix.


Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Wow, only 72k car's been treated with care, and the timing chain is going out already?

This is why I prefer timing belts. Sure chains supposedly last longer, BUT, when there are problems or replacement needed it is a HUGE, and often times expensive job!



Yes car is VERY well maintained...it is a design fault that effects all GM 3.6 High Feature engines from 2007 to around 2010. There are several bulletins out and just doing a Google search will explain the extent of it. It effects other vehicles too such as Acadia for example that use the engine. I tend to put this issue in the same realm as the old 3800 intake manifold failures. I have reviewed warranty claims and have seen timing chain replacements as soon as 10k miles and as late as 109k miles. I always figured it was not a matter of if but when mine were going to go out.

I still prefer chains over belts though. If this issue had not been present I would never need any maintenance like a belt.

 

[fdcg27]

Maybe not.
A wowza largely Grp V oil on reasonable drain intervals for the oil used didn't prevent failure.
A Grp III oil of known good quality on very moderate change intervals didn't prevent failure.
The reader might conclude that no oil on any change interval could have prevented this engine deign defect from manifesting itself.

 

[fdcg27]

You're right.
You and your father have experienced timing chain failure with the same engine after pretty low mileage, so chains must be better than belts.
GM engineering is also top notch, apparently.
Nice that GM warrantied this.
They didn't have to, since these cars are products of the old GM, and the new GM has no legal obligation to honor the old company's obligations.

 

[daves87rs]

Hope it comes out as good as new!

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Maybe not.
A wowza largely Grp V oil on reasonable drain intervals for the oil used didn't prevent failure.
A Grp III oil of known good quality on very moderate change intervals didn't prevent failure.
The reader might conclude that no oil on any change interval could have prevented this engine deign defect from manifesting itself.


You put it better than I tried to

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You're right.
You and your father have experienced timing chain failure with the same engine after pretty low mileage, so chains must be better than belts.
GM engineering is also top notch, apparently.
Nice that GM warrantied this.
They didn't have to, since these cars are products of the old GM, and the new GM has no legal obligation to honor the old company's obligations.



These are not products of the old GM. The old or new GM was not based on models but by facilities. For example, the Shreveport, LA plant was old GM and closed up. My plant that builds all fullsize SUV is the new GM..models that we build today were introduced in 2006 as MY2007's.

The engineering that is in these high feature engines are amazing. They are powerful, smooth as silk and full of great things...somebody just messed up with the timing chain specs or whatever. Timing chains still are better than belts statistically.

I am a GM engineer and can admit, this timing chain fiasco was quite a mistake, however atleast they are taking care of the customer. ANY model effected is covered by a 10 yr/120k mile warranty regardless of ownership. The new kit installed has revised chains and tensioners and I hope is a permanent fix.

So - bad design or spec, but GM is stepping up and fixing it for all.

 

[fdcg27]

Bad design?
Ya think?
Still, it is very nice that GM is stepping up to the plate and is taking care of the engines involved.
That has not always been the case in the past, as where GM ignored the designed-in LIM failures.
If I were you, even were I not a GM employee, I'd surely become a GM loyalist if they stepped up and did an expensive repair to my car without charge.
WRT belts, as long as they're changed at the factory recommended intervals, they seem to be trouble free.
I write that as someone who has owned six timing belt Hondas.

 

[OVERKILL]

You going to have pics?

I'm interested to see the process.

 

[GMBoy]

The light went off yesterday! So now, with it being a history code, I am curious to see what the dealer does. My appt is not until Monday so maybe the light will come back on by then. My guess is that they will do the OLM reprogram which I have not let them do yet...it also widens some parameters which set trouble codes..and send me on my way. That is fine since I still have plenty of warranty left to cover. But, I plan in talking to the service guy I know and seeing what they can do...this is not a problem that will go away I know that for sure.

I WILL request some pics or take them myself if the let me as I'd love to share with you all what a 72k mile 3.6DI engine that has been run Mobil 1 all its life with 5-6k mile changes looks like inside-----valves too!!


There are pics on the web of this job being done and I've reviewed the GM service information. It makes me a little sick knowing somebody I don't know is going to do so much tear down on my motor....AND I just put fresh Mobil 1 EP in it 700 miles ago.

Here is one guys account of doing it on an older 2005 model but the process is similar:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cad...ming-chain.html

 

[mike7139]

Glad that GM isn't throwing this under the table as it would have done in the past. I think all car companies should warranty their vehicles 10 years or 100k miles on the powertrain and all major components.

 

[GMBoy]

Light has been off 2nd day. My appt is for Monday so I called the dealer and we had a real honest discussion of the issue.

They really need a hard code set (with CEL on) in order to do the repairs and get reimbursed and I understand that completely. I've got a lot of time left on the special warranty so I will keep driving it until the light comes back on and he said as soon as it does - bring it right in no appt. needed. The service advisor was pretty well educated on the chain issue.

So - that's my update. I'm gonna see if I can make it come on again, lol!

 

[antiqueshell]

GMBoy: Just have the dealer check for the
"pending code" that was stored for that problem when the light went on briefly and then off again.

I'm pretty sure that the pending code would be good enough for GM to do the work under warranty.

 

[morris]

" and the timing chain is going out already?
" remember ALL cars makers make cars "ONLY GOOD ENOUGH"

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
GMBoy: Just have the dealer check for the
"pending code" that was stored for that problem when the light went on briefly and then off again.

I'm pretty sure that the pending code would be good enough for GM to do the work under warranty.



Good point. I have as Tech 2 and when I last checked it was a history code that was listed as Passed & failed...with the current ignition cycle listed as passed. No pending. I will check it again today. I've been driving the car as close to the conditions it was when the code set according to the snapshot data. Hopefully I will get it to fail again and set the hard code or pending even.

Thanks