Well you certainly can't if you don't bother to look at it.
Liqui-moly motor oil saver and anti-friction?
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You would need to cut out media and set up a flow experiment - considering to the bypass in most spin-ons, even bench testing is hard to interpret. What looks clogged my be fine and what looks fine may be clogged with microparticulate agglomerated and embedded deep in the fibres. I tried the stuff and the Honda puked on it. Thats it. Never again.
I'm going to dump the stuff out of my 6500w GENERAC genset too - thought an ounce would be ok in a non filtered non pressure lubed gen running 10w30 Valvoline VR1 syn race oil. Motor didnt sound too good afterwards. Glad I didnt put any in my 8hp TECUMSEH snowking. Anybody Want a 1/2 bottle for free?
The Bottle is absolutely Eurosexy.
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You would need to cut out media and set up a flow experiment - considering to the bypass in most spin-ons, even bench testing is hard to interpret. What looks clogged my be fine and what looks fine may be clogged with microparticulate agglomerated and embedded deep in the fibres.
I'm just not thinking that a filter so badly "clogged" that it nearly killed your engine would be all that hard to detect.
We'll just agree to disagree then and move on...
You would need to cut out media and set up a flow experiment - considering to the bypass in most spin-ons, even bench testing is hard to interpret. What looks clogged my be fine and what looks fine may be clogged with microparticulate agglomerated and embedded deep in the fibres.
I'm just not thinking that a filter so badly "clogged" that it nearly killed your engine would be all that hard to detect.
We'll just agree to disagree then and move on...
I used LM MoS2 once in my 197K mile honda 2.0 with nothing negative (or positive) to report.
Originally Posted By: Brule
I used LM MoS2 once in my 197K mile honda 2.0 with nothing negative (or positive) to report.
Well, there is certainly an honest answer!
I used LM MoS2 once in my 197K mile honda 2.0 with nothing negative (or positive) to report.
Well, there is certainly an honest answer!
I just changed the oil on my mother's Fit. It had about 12000 miles on Pennzoil Ultra 5w20 and LubroMoly MoS2. I'll send in the sample this week. When I get the results, I'll be sure to post the carnage.
That is a UOA i want to see - 12K on Ultra and LM
lol Vikas and NHguy
lol Vikas and NHguy
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Just ran the LiquiMoly MoS2 in the honda and it almost killed the engine. Had to drain 40 bucks of fresh EDGE 0w20 wTi. No, NO and NO.
Also:
NO.
ARCO posted a peculiar story some time back that quickly went from "kinda sorta I think this happened" to "It's all MoS2's fault it totally clogged the filter and nearly killed my engine".
ARCO you claimed MoS2 completely clogged the filter, yet you never opened it or posted pics of it that I saw or heard of... pure speculation on your part till you pony up. You could have simply gotten a bad filter, without some investigation instead of speculation we will never know.
FYI I am standing by with a host of full OCI run filters used with a full application of MoS2 which I HAVE cut open, as well as some used before that without MoS2, I'll warn you now you won't be able to tell which ones are the Mos2 filters until I tell you.
Maybe you just need to get away from wimply little Hondas.
Sorry, to the OP I highly recommend you e-mail and ask LMoly before using multiple products at once, I have found them highly responsive and thoughtful in the past.
Using Moly with some of the top of the range full synthetics does seem to cause a problem as I've been looking through some UOA's that are showing very definite jumps in the insolubles. Some of the major brand full synthetics from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and Amsoil don't contain Moly and it is not included because of some type of adverse interaction with the dispersant additives.
I've not seen any UOA based evidence of Moly improving the performance of a major brand full synthetic, although it does seem to improve the performance of cheap supermarket oils.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Just ran the LiquiMoly MoS2 in the honda and it almost killed the engine. Had to drain 40 bucks of fresh EDGE 0w20 wTi. No, NO and NO.
Also:
NO.
ARCO posted a peculiar story some time back that quickly went from "kinda sorta I think this happened" to "It's all MoS2's fault it totally clogged the filter and nearly killed my engine".
ARCO you claimed MoS2 completely clogged the filter, yet you never opened it or posted pics of it that I saw or heard of... pure speculation on your part till you pony up. You could have simply gotten a bad filter, without some investigation instead of speculation we will never know.
FYI I am standing by with a host of full OCI run filters used with a full application of MoS2 which I HAVE cut open, as well as some used before that without MoS2, I'll warn you now you won't be able to tell which ones are the Mos2 filters until I tell you.
Maybe you just need to get away from wimply little Hondas.
Sorry, to the OP I highly recommend you e-mail and ask LMoly before using multiple products at once, I have found them highly responsive and thoughtful in the past.
Using Moly with some of the top of the range full synthetics does seem to cause a problem as I've been looking through some UOA's that are showing very definite jumps in the insolubles. Some of the major brand full synthetics from Castrol, Mobil, Liqui Moly and Amsoil don't contain Moly and it is not included because of some type of adverse interaction with the dispersant additives.
I've not seen any UOA based evidence of Moly improving the performance of a major brand full synthetic, although it does seem to improve the performance of cheap supermarket oils.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Car ran fine after a week after dumping the fill with 1/3 a bottle of MoS2. Engine was extremely noisy and low on power. Engine vibrated as if the rings were stuck. MoS2 is not used by any leading manufacturer as an anti-wear/ anti-friction agent; and its use being backed off due to propensity for ring sticking given ILSAC GF5 strict piston deposit limits. They use soluble Moly dithiocarbamate or similar. Note on viscosity: Having colliodal suspension of solid particulate in a viscous fluid will thicken the oil, guys. Come on - basic lube 101 here.
So a week after you dumped the Edge 0w20, all was back to normal.
What you implied was that it immediately was 'extremely noisy and low on power' after the oil change where you added the MoS2. Is that true?
Your grasp of Basic Lube 101 is pretty flawed if you believe what you posted - especially since you can see for yourself that LM MoS2 is approximately a 30 weight oil thanks to this VOA.
Now with your list of outdoor power equipment, we're gonna have to start removing our shoes to count all the engines you've killed!
Car ran fine after a week after dumping the fill with 1/3 a bottle of MoS2. Engine was extremely noisy and low on power. Engine vibrated as if the rings were stuck. MoS2 is not used by any leading manufacturer as an anti-wear/ anti-friction agent; and its use being backed off due to propensity for ring sticking given ILSAC GF5 strict piston deposit limits. They use soluble Moly dithiocarbamate or similar. Note on viscosity: Having colliodal suspension of solid particulate in a viscous fluid will thicken the oil, guys. Come on - basic lube 101 here.
So a week after you dumped the Edge 0w20, all was back to normal.
What you implied was that it immediately was 'extremely noisy and low on power' after the oil change where you added the MoS2. Is that true?
Your grasp of Basic Lube 101 is pretty flawed if you believe what you posted - especially since you can see for yourself that LM MoS2 is approximately a 30 weight oil thanks to this VOA.
Now with your list of outdoor power equipment, we're gonna have to start removing our shoes to count all the engines you've killed!
I've used both at the same time in my chev and now in my hemi and in my mustang,and in my girls windstar and in 12 5.5 hp Honda powered air compressors and in 5 gas powered generators.
The air compressors have been getting it for years,fuel consumption went from draining the tank in 6 hours to draining the tank in 8 hours,a few of them almost last the 10 hour workday.
The hemi saw a consumption decrease. I didn't put any in the AFE I just put in last week simply because I wanted to give the Mobil an honest shot on its own however I did find antifreeze in my oil 2 changes ago which the motor oil saver has seemed to fix,since the antifreeze level has stabilized and I've found none in the oil.
I have found liqui-moly to make products that perform as advertised and have been using their mos2 additive for years now and no failed engines to report.
In the case of my air compressors I took one apart to rebuild it because the guys ran it without oil,for 2 days.
I took the head off,saw no scoring in the cylinder,so I took a monster pipe wrench and got it to turn over. Checked the entire travel of the piston and no scoring whatsoever.
I put it back together,put oil and mos2 in it again and it started first pull,after I primed the carb of course.
The only explanation I can fathom is the mos2 saved my engine from total catastrophic failure. That engine is still running today,doesn't consume any oil and doesn't smoke.
Oh yeah,I didn't find any sludge in it either and that particular pump has been getting treated with mos2 for years now.
So these claims of mos2 causing sludge and failure is utter nonsense. My equipment runs under the worst conditions imagineable. From -40 in the winter to 40c in the summer these motors run,day in and day out and the only failure I've ever encountered was human error,my guys not paying attention,unhooking the oil alert instead of adding oil etc.
I feel bad for Arco graphite and his experience with this particular additive but his experience is the exception,not the rule,as my equipment is proving.
Op. you can use both at the same time but if you are really concerned email liqui-moly. I have on occasion and they have gotten back to me very quickly. I asked them this very question a couple years ago because I had a weeping gasket on one of my air compressors and at the time it had mos2 in the oil. They stated it was fine to mix them. That gasket hasn't weeped since adding 1/8 of a can of the motor oil saver.
I now use the stuff as preventative maintenance in all my equipment. Its cheap and it works.
Forget the naysayers who have no real experience with these products. I've used them for years and my equipment is showing no signs of failure yet,nor do I expect any.
These machines have multiple thousands of hours on them. In fact my service guy/salesman is in awe that our equipment doesn't fail. He says 5000 hours and the rings are pretty much shot on the Honda 5.5 hp engines yet my newest one was purchased roughly 3 years ago,and has roughly that many hours on it,which means my other 11 have more hours than that and don't consume oil,smoke or foul plugs. 8 bucks a can for this stuff saves me 1000 bucks an air compressor since it seems mine are lasting twice as long as they should.
And these motors get the oil changed whenever. Not very regularly. Usually when the oil looks like mud,yet the cylinders and rings look new.
Draw your own conclusions,I have already drawn mine.
Oh yeah. I use an acetone,tc-w3 mix in the fuel cans before it gets into the machines gas tanks. That may also be a contributing factor.
If it ain't or hasn't broke............
The air compressors have been getting it for years,fuel consumption went from draining the tank in 6 hours to draining the tank in 8 hours,a few of them almost last the 10 hour workday.
The hemi saw a consumption decrease. I didn't put any in the AFE I just put in last week simply because I wanted to give the Mobil an honest shot on its own however I did find antifreeze in my oil 2 changes ago which the motor oil saver has seemed to fix,since the antifreeze level has stabilized and I've found none in the oil.
I have found liqui-moly to make products that perform as advertised and have been using their mos2 additive for years now and no failed engines to report.
In the case of my air compressors I took one apart to rebuild it because the guys ran it without oil,for 2 days.
I took the head off,saw no scoring in the cylinder,so I took a monster pipe wrench and got it to turn over. Checked the entire travel of the piston and no scoring whatsoever.
I put it back together,put oil and mos2 in it again and it started first pull,after I primed the carb of course.
The only explanation I can fathom is the mos2 saved my engine from total catastrophic failure. That engine is still running today,doesn't consume any oil and doesn't smoke.
Oh yeah,I didn't find any sludge in it either and that particular pump has been getting treated with mos2 for years now.
So these claims of mos2 causing sludge and failure is utter nonsense. My equipment runs under the worst conditions imagineable. From -40 in the winter to 40c in the summer these motors run,day in and day out and the only failure I've ever encountered was human error,my guys not paying attention,unhooking the oil alert instead of adding oil etc.
I feel bad for Arco graphite and his experience with this particular additive but his experience is the exception,not the rule,as my equipment is proving.
Op. you can use both at the same time but if you are really concerned email liqui-moly. I have on occasion and they have gotten back to me very quickly. I asked them this very question a couple years ago because I had a weeping gasket on one of my air compressors and at the time it had mos2 in the oil. They stated it was fine to mix them. That gasket hasn't weeped since adding 1/8 of a can of the motor oil saver.
I now use the stuff as preventative maintenance in all my equipment. Its cheap and it works.
Forget the naysayers who have no real experience with these products. I've used them for years and my equipment is showing no signs of failure yet,nor do I expect any.
These machines have multiple thousands of hours on them. In fact my service guy/salesman is in awe that our equipment doesn't fail. He says 5000 hours and the rings are pretty much shot on the Honda 5.5 hp engines yet my newest one was purchased roughly 3 years ago,and has roughly that many hours on it,which means my other 11 have more hours than that and don't consume oil,smoke or foul plugs. 8 bucks a can for this stuff saves me 1000 bucks an air compressor since it seems mine are lasting twice as long as they should.
And these motors get the oil changed whenever. Not very regularly. Usually when the oil looks like mud,yet the cylinders and rings look new.
Draw your own conclusions,I have already drawn mine.
Oh yeah. I use an acetone,tc-w3 mix in the fuel cans before it gets into the machines gas tanks. That may also be a contributing factor.
If it ain't or hasn't broke............
Nice report.............
I have been using it in an old Craftsman mower that would smoke on startup. It's been a few seasons now with MoS2 and the smoking has stopped, a fluke some might say I highly doubt it.
It looks like you've done some extensives testing and had some good results, certainly not hit or miss either. It should be interesting to see the rebuttals to your observations. I mean after all its not an approved aqdditive, and not recommeneded in your owners manuals.
I have been using it in an old Craftsman mower that would smoke on startup. It's been a few seasons now with MoS2 and the smoking has stopped, a fluke some might say I highly doubt it.
It looks like you've done some extensives testing and had some good results, certainly not hit or miss either. It should be interesting to see the rebuttals to your observations. I mean after all its not an approved aqdditive, and not recommeneded in your owners manuals.
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Even Skyship is against moly. He likes LM but he is saying that moly causes sludge in new high tech synthetic motor oils in extended use.
Bollocks.
Used and ZDDPlus it in my PD TDI with Schaeffer 9000 for a 1 year, 18k mile (30k km) OCI - which included significant stop & go, high temperature city driving, high speed interstate cruises & towing. Pulled a sample and sent it off to Blackstone - best UOA yet.
Even Skyship is against moly. He likes LM but he is saying that moly causes sludge in new high tech synthetic motor oils in extended use.
Bollocks.
Used and ZDDPlus it in my PD TDI with Schaeffer 9000 for a 1 year, 18k mile (30k km) OCI - which included significant stop & go, high temperature city driving, high speed interstate cruises & towing. Pulled a sample and sent it off to Blackstone - best UOA yet.
I don't know why there is not more discussion about Schaeffer's products here. Their oil supplement was great. And their motor oil is supposed to be some of the best a person can get.
Also, Bob back in the old days here said to use Neutra to clean dirty engines.
Also, Bob back in the old days here said to use Neutra to clean dirty engines.
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Originally Posted By: Mystic
I don't know why there is not more discussion about Schaeffer's products here. Their oil supplement was great. And their motor oil is supposed to be some of the best a person can get.
Also, Bob back in the old days here said to use Neutra to clean dirty engines.
Schaeffer Oil is still an underrated master blender of fuel additives, hdeo engine oils, gear oils, greases.......and more!
I don't know why there is not more discussion about Schaeffer's products here. Their oil supplement was great. And their motor oil is supposed to be some of the best a person can get.
Also, Bob back in the old days here said to use Neutra to clean dirty engines.
Schaeffer Oil is still an underrated master blender of fuel additives, hdeo engine oils, gear oils, greases.......and more!
Originally Posted By: salesrep
Schaeffer Oil is still an underrated master blender of fuel additives, hdeo engine oils, gear oils, greases.......and more!
IIRC there was a $200 minimum to place an order with you? At least that's what I was told a few years back when making an inquiry. If I'm wrong please correct me. If I'm right I'd bet a lot more people would try it, if that wasn't the case.
Schaeffer Oil is still an underrated master blender of fuel additives, hdeo engine oils, gear oils, greases.......and more!
IIRC there was a $200 minimum to place an order with you? At least that's what I was told a few years back when making an inquiry. If I'm wrong please correct me. If I'm right I'd bet a lot more people would try it, if that wasn't the case.
Originally Posted By: salesrep
Only minimum is a case.
Thanks for clearing that up, maybe that will help boost the product, along with you posting more on about Schaffers on the board! I think #132 is a sleeper and has fallen out of the lime light,I've had very good results with it over the past few years.
Only minimum is a case.
Thanks for clearing that up, maybe that will help boost the product, along with you posting more on about Schaffers on the board! I think #132 is a sleeper and has fallen out of the lime light,I've had very good results with it over the past few years.
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