Acea E7 / API CI4 and A3/B4 spec?

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: skyship
The bad news is that nearly all 15/40's are designed for trucks and that means they have to be cheap, so the quality of their add packs is not so good and not many are true long life oils as a result.


True, you're not going to find a lot, if any, 15w-40s that claim ACEA E specs, and fully synthetic ones are rare for obvious reasons. Aside from Amsoil and Royal Purple, I can't think of many 15w-40 synthetics.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: Garak
True, you're not going to find a lot, if any, 15w-40s that claim ACEA E specs, and fully synthetic ones are rare for obvious reasons. Aside from Amsoil and Royal Purple, I can't think of many 15w-40 synthetics.


Actually there are many many 15W40s that meet ACEA E7 and E9; but not E4, E6.

Charlie

 

[bigjl]

Thanks for the link!

 

[Rollins]

You are welcome,bigjl!



Quote:
The bad news is that nearly all 15/40's are designed for trucks and that means they have to be cheap, so the quality of their add packs is not so good and not many are true long life oils as a result.

Skyship,I beg to differ on this one- the table at the bottom of this document says just the opposite(you will see that A3/B3/B4 performance level is achieved at lower additive package ratio in the same basestock):

HiTEC 8799B


WBoer- Not sure about what the engineer you spoke to might have had in mind(better boundary lubrication protection due to heavier additisation?Harder to "rupture" oil film in the sense of the two quotes below?). What one usuaIly hears is that synthetic oils have stronger oil film than their mineral cousins.

Quote:
The molecular structure of many synthetic oils also gives them higher film strengths than petroleum. The oil film keeps two moving parts from rubbing against each other, and higher film strength enables synthetics oils to withstand heavier loads, faster speeds, and to better prevent wear. (Synthetics, Mineral Oils, and Bio-Based Lubricants - Chemistry and Technology, CRC press) etc.


MolaKule says in one thread:
Quote:
Film strength's are dependant upon viscosity, but that is not all that is involved. Consider these items. If the molecular chains (molecular bonding and chain arrangement) are much stronger and more consistent, then the fluid has a higher film strength; synthetic fluids have stronger and more consistent molecules than do dinos. Synthetics are less likely to shear under high loads, maintaing hydrodynamic lubrication...


google: "film strength" synthetic site:bobistheoilguy.com


And OEMs would've recommended easily-obtainable HDEOs in certain high-performance cars instead of high-tech synthetics...

Not that the hdi or tdi would blow in smoke if mineral 15w-40 were used, but they're not the optimal choice long-term. And do not fit in OEM recommedations (at least not in DW10td's case- no matter how simple and rugged the engine is).I'd hate to hear a lifter tick in cold weather,change the (humble amount of 4.25l of) oil @ less than the "severe use" prescribed interval(15K km.), lose some fuel economy in winter or lose sleep over the turbocharger longevity..or cat health...or proper EGR operation

 

[WBoer]

I have found a synhtetic 10W40 HDEO in my local store and it's the only one they have:
Valvoline

It has E4 and E7, but i'm worried about the very high TBN, maybe to high?
Should be compatible with EGR and SCR.

 

[Rollins]

Avoid such oils- I'd expect this one to have Sulphated Ash level around 1,8wt.%

..........

A great deal of 228.3 -certified oils are actually mixed-fleet oils ,having moderate SA levels of 1-1.3wt% (ACEA A3/B4 limit is max.1.6 wt.%)

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten...ent_action=show

 

[WBoer]

that was what I'm worried about...

What would happen if I use this high ash oil?

 

[Rollins]

Shorter cat converter life,if oil consumption is high enough.

Speculations about higher cylinder wear in diesel engines not designed to use such oils...not good for spark-ignition engines too(fouled spark-plugs due to ash residue...fouled ignition due to sparkling ash particles etc).

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: WBoer
I have found a synhtetic 10W40 HDEO in my local store and it's the only one they have:
Valvoline

It has E4 and E7, but i'm worried about the very high TBN, maybe to high?
Should be compatible with EGR and SCR.






I looked at Valvolene oils a while ago.

The one you want is Profleet 10w40 LS as it is a CI 4 oil, I believe LS Indicates low saps.

 

[m37charlie]

Mr Boer, you and Rollins have gone back and forth for 2 pages without stating the most important datum:
what is your exact vehicle (year and model)?
If it has a DPF?
If so, Valvoline ProFleet LS, an ACEA E6/E4/E7 oil might be excellent, dependant on the model and oil consumption tendency.

Charlie

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Actually there are many many 15W40s that meet ACEA E7 and E9; but not E4, E6.


Which ones? Perhaps I should be reading bottles more closely!

 

[Rollins]

Garak,You may check Volvo VDS-4 or Mack EO-O Premium Plus Approval list,as these oils are usually coupled with ACEA E9/E7 API CJ-4 categories.
http://www.brucknertruck.com/pdf/Service-Lubricants-Mack-EngineOil-Approved..pdf
http://www.macktrucks.com/assets/mack/Service Information/PV776-88955900.pdf
http://www.brucknertruck.com/pdf/Service-Lubricants-Volvo-Approved..pdf
VDS-4 2010

...or MB 229.31:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten...ent_action=show

m37charlie, the vehicles in question are quoted in WBoer's post # 2865003 above.
They are PSA Peugeot Partner's y.2004 DW10TD(common-rail,90 HP,first introduced y.1999) and a tuned (originally 132kw) V6 2.5tdi VW AKE engine(with electronically-controlled VP44 Injection Pump).
Both are non-DPF engines.
Would like to see your opinion on using E6(with high enough a TBN number) oils in non-DPF'd engines.

 

[Rollins]

Originally Posted By: Rollins

...or MB 228.31,typo,sorry:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten...ent_action=show

 

[Garak]

Thanks for the tip. The Mercedes ones I've usually seen on synthetic 5w-40s, but the others elsewhere, too.

 

[WBoer]

Thank you Rollins.

They don´t sell Profleet LS, the ´´normal´´ Profleet 10W40 is the only one they sell, a lot more expensive than a mineral 15W40 E7 btw! (50euro 5 liter with 40%discount!)

So don´t use it in my cars? I have a Iveco truck (2.3HPI) to, and 15W40 E2 is subribed, all of my cars have no DPF, even the EGR is disabled. (Iveco has no egr and cat)

 

[m37charlie]

I think an E6 oil (228.51) oil would be fine in small diesels. Even with a DPF although it may ash up a bit quicker.

Charlie