Centrifugal Oil Filter Systems 1 micron-Sub-micron

[cadchris]

Hey guys,

So I'm reading up on all the experts on BITOG for a while now trying to find "The Best" Oil Filter out there. Still confused with all the inconclusive garage studies I've read over the years past, and different opinions. I guess it boils down to in Alphabetical Order: #1. Amsoil EOA, #2. Fram Ultra, #3. Mobil 1 Extended Performance..... can't think of the others that seem to be the top end filters, but have read on BITOG to stick with the 100% synthetics.

In the past, I have also used larger filters that would fit my Cadillac's with the rationale that more surface area = lower pressure drop = more efficiency,.... at least that's the general principal with HVAC Air Filtration for indoor air quality. I'm even trying to maybe adapt to the Donaldson Endurance somehow on my 305 Chevy motor but don't know if it's been down before as maybe it's a better filter than whats available at the parts stores.

Now I was thinking of another concept and problem I had to solve for a 28 story commercial condo building that had a cooling tower sediment problem and the water cooled A/C units on the lower floors were getting clogged. So I installed a centrifugal spin down filter on each units water cooled input line that worked great to keep the A/C's water cooled condenser coil from clogging. No more clogs, everyone is happy, and the system is getting cleaner every day!

So I Googled: "Centrifugal Oil Filters" and found out there are many on the market. I was hoping there would be extensive discussion here on BITOG with a lot of knowledge about these systems, but not too much from what I could find so far which is why I'm posting this along with what looks like some amazing "expensive" technology in oil filtering of efficiencies far less than 1 micron! Each mfg. touts these systems as being so efficient; it would be amusing if they could separate the oils additive package along with "Dino DNA"!

I posted this in the "Oil Filter Section" because I think some of these "Centrifugal Filter Systems are also used as primary filters from what I can see.....so maybe this would need moved to the "Bypass Filter" section and I'll start the thread there and place this threads link in that new thread......let me know if I should do it?

The only 2 threads on BITOG I could find that mentioned Centrifugal Filters was HERE the 3rd post on that pg. by "Glum" who stated he won't post again on the forum for some reason?????but no one commented about the "Diesel Craft Filter System" link he posted. His study there was an interesting read measuring oil filter efficiency per "Particle Count" although there was some debate on validity of the test.

Also HERE where "Stew705" posted about the "FPE-Spin Clean" system.


So here are some very interesting and I guess ultimate filtration systems for review:

Diesel Craft System

FPE Spin Clean System

PPE Filter System

Spinner II System

Spinner II's simple website which I think is a dealer's site in Canada:
HERE

This X-Military Vintage Truck Forum talks about how good the Spinner II system is, but I wonder if a gas engine with a stock oil pump has enough oil pressure to make the system function ?????
HERE


If these systems have been discussed already, sorry for posting, but this was just an idea I had for the ultimate filtration of oil. It looks like each of these system have smaller units to adapt to a gas engine and run off the engines oil pressure. I think one unit (Diesel Craft System) has an auxiliary electric oil pump, but I don't know enough about each w/o calling these company's to find out IF they can be installed on a non-diesel street motor but I don't see why not.

I'd like to see my motors cleaner after a mishap many years ago from some bad commercial fleet oil that was sold to our business that sludged up a whole fleet of delivery trucks including my 2 Cadillac's and the problem was compounded by the "Kick" in the "Nuts" "red oil air filters" I brilliantly ran thinking they were the best for power and filtration back then in the early 90's......and I could never understand why I had such high silicate values on my Oil Analysis for the past 20 years!

So once again.......who makes the best regular type oil filter ????!!!!! They all look the same to me the more I read on BITOG!

Regards,
Chris

 

[Clevy]

Will such a filter extend engine life.
I think the law of diminishing returns applies here. If your that keen on filtration get a by-pass system and call er a day.
I have a friend with a 2010 cummins. He runs a dual by-pass set up and a full flow filter. He never changes the oil and I think he uses a roll of toilet paper in the by-pass canisters. His uoa show no insols since the toilet paper rolls filter to at least a micron,maybe smaller.
He swaps out the full flow every 20000kms and ditches the toilet paper at the same time and ends up needing 4-5 quarts of oil to get it back to full,which gets the oils additive package back up again.
If I had a brand new engine,which is coming this summer I may go the by-pass route however on an already used engine I don't see the added expense paying back a return on investment.
Jmo

 

[229]

Can sub-micron filtering remove additives?

 

[Jim Allen]

I think sub-micronic can remove some additives but from what I have studied, it's not much of an issue in ordinary filtration situations. I can't quote chapter and verse here, but there are some oils in which sub-micronic filtration can be a problem. You might look up Molakule's posts and research there. I think he may have touched on this.

I have bypass filtration down to 3um on two of my trucks now. I had previously used 5um on one and 10um on the other (it was a fresh overhaul so I went with a more loose filter). I took oil samples just before I changed to the finer filters and got a good PC on it and will run each truck at least another 5K and test again to see how much the PC dropped (if it does). I won't post the first PCs yet, but I can tell you that after 10K of operation, the gas truck's oil was a little cleaner than the new oil I installed (I had the new oil tested as well) and the overhauled diesel was about as clean as the new oil 2K after the overhaul. I didn't expect too much from the diesel since it has just barely broken in at this point. We'll see in 5K.

BTW, I had a UOA done on the oil too and the dino in the gas truck with 10K on it was ready for more and it will get at least 5K more. As expected the oil in the diesel was still great at only 2K. I was mainly worried about the contamination there and the bypass took good care of that.

If he hasn't yet, dnewton may chime in with his ROI and diminishing returns arguments... and they can't be ignored. From the statistical studies he has run (and he is highly qualified to do so) it doesn't appear that filtration below a certain ordinary threshold doesn't statistically reduce wear. I think there is more to it but I don't dismiss his work.

I think the wear is reduced as the oil is made cleaner, but it's hard to justify the expense of going below a certain cleanliness level... by the indicated wear in a UOA at least (and he reviewed THOUSANDS of UOAs). I think there may be payback in other areas, like increased oil life but the extent of that is TBD and most likely highly variable according to application. I think if a guy wanted to emulate the example above, the guy that never changes his oil, that's where the best payoff would be vs a guy thinking he is going to significantly reduce engine wear... a goal with tenuous links to any sort of a payback down the road for many reasons.

The best payback comes with engines operated in harsh environments, where the rate of contamination and it's makeup is much greater. Diesels also might see the better payback due to their propensity to soot load their oil.

 

[cadchris]

Thanks "Clevy". I guess that's where I maybe going is with some better By-Pass system. Amsoil's system?

My goal is to start running some kind of oil flush additive/quick flushes while having some better main filter and/or supplemental filter system to try and filter out minimal sludge/varnish.

I have to ask this question. I've read many posts about "Toilet Paper" filtration. I doubted this back in the day when I first heard about it 30 yrs ago when I saw a news story on t.v. that a major marine/boat builder here in S. Florida was selling these units.

Part of my and everyone else's daily ritual is wiping their a..ss's with the terrible toilet paper of today! This stuff ain't worth sh.... It most likely has to do with being septic system friendly, and not clogging up the newer water efficient toilets because the toilet paper today dissolves and "self destructs" faster than Ethan Hunts message from Mission Impossible"!

I just can't conceive using the quick dissolving toilet paper in an oil filtration system. I don't even think going down the isles to "Squeeze the Charman" and the lecture from "Mr. Whipple" would help either to find the tuff stuff, because, it just don't exist anymore.......sorry for making jokes, I couldn't resist!

Anyway, "Jim Allen" I wanted to ask you since I saw you referenced using some new By-Pass System. Which one are you using now and before, and how did you base your choice.
For example, how do you choose a good By-Pass System?

I know I should post that in the By-Pass section, but would still like to know anyone's thoughts on these Centrifugal Oil Filters........

Thanks for everyone's input.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: cadchris
Thanks "Clevy". I guess that's where I maybe going is with some better By-Pass system. Amsoil's system?

My goal is to start running some kind of oil flush additive/quick flushes while having some better main filter and/or supplemental filter system to try and filter out minimal sludge/varnish.

I have to ask this question. I've read many posts about "Toilet Paper" filtration. I doubted this back in the day when I first heard about it 30 yrs ago when I saw a news story on t.v. that a major marine/boat builder here in S. Florida was selling these units.

Part of my and everyone else's daily ritual is wiping their a..ss's with the terrible toilet paper of today! This stuff ain't worth sh.... It's most likely has to do with septic system friendly, and not clogging up the newer water efficient toilets because the toilet paper today dissolves and "self destructs" faster than Ethan Hunts message from Mission Impossible"!

I just can't conceive using the quick dissolving toilet paper in an oil filtration system. I don't even think going down the isles to "Squeeze the Charman" would help either to find the tuff stuff, because, it just don't exist anymore.......sorry for making jokes, I couldn't resist!

Anyway, "Jim Allen" I wanted to ask you since I saw you referenced using some new By-Pass System. Which one are you using and how did you base your choice. For example, how do you choose a good By-Pass System?

I know I should post that in the By-Pass section, but would still like to know anyone's thoughts on these Centrifugal Oil Filters........

Thanks for everyone's input.

Regards,
Chris


Hehehe.
Ya. I'm not sure how well it would work after 20k. More harm then good.
I think you'd be best off finding a good by-pass system and call it a day.
There was a thread not long ago where a member put together his own by-pass system and by the time he has sourced the parts and such the Amsoil complete system was only a few dollars more,not to mention his time getting it together.
Anyways with any luck Dnewton will pop in here and give you the low down. He has alot of data to back up his statements,so I would consider his opinion gospel in this area.

 

[cadchris]

Glad you liked the joke Clevy. I'm sure that Charman video I posted will bring back memories for everyone. I still can't understand how they are running toilet paper as a media unless when it breaks down into sub-micron fibers, it scrubs the system clean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't even get 1 wipe in before having to chuck it in the bowl! What a gimmick the TP and Toilet industry created which is the main reason to join Costco or Sams to buy the stuff in bulk!

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: cadchris


Anyway, "Jim Allen" I wanted to ask you since I saw you referenced using some new By-Pass System. Which one are you using now and before, and how did you base your choice.
For example, how do you choose a good By-Pass System?

I know I should post that in the By-Pass section, but would still like to know anyone's thoughts on these Centrifugal Oil Filters........

Thanks for everyone's input.

Regards,
Chris


Last first. Centrifugal oil filters work great but they require lots of oil pressure and flow to operate. Most units built are huge for huge engines. Last I looked, there were only a couple small enough for pass. cars or light trucks. And they are EX-pensive. Happy googling!

As to my filters, the current ones are Racor ABS Racor . They work and look a lot like the TP filter but use a special element that comes in 3, 5 and 10um absolute efficiency.... your choice. What I like about them is that they can capture water and many oxidation byproducts (sludge and varnish while it's in the soft stage). I like the choice of efficiency. If you had a really dirty engine you wanted to clean up, the 3um element might plug rapidly, so you can gradually work the efficiency down from 10um as the engine gets cleaner. That was my reasoning behind starting my freshly overhauled engine on the 10 um fitler because I knew it would likely be throwing off break-in metal and cleaning up the dirt I built into it. I also like that you can remove the lid of the filter and observe the top layers (engine off, of course) I did this frequently on the overhauled diesel to observe what big chunks were caught (just a very few bright metallic bits visible). Can't see anything on the gas truck... it's clean and broken in. Racors smallest unit is just small enough to fit many passenger cars and light trucks.

I think this idea is superior to a something like an Amsoil setup, which features a very nice synthetic media filter. It does very well at filtering but it doesn't have the additional feature of absorbing moisture and oxidative byproducts.

I had previously used Racors LFS system, which was an old style wound cotton string affair. You can still get the elements for them but they no longer manufacture the kits.

 

[cadchris]

Thanks Jim!

So were those centrifugal filters I listed above in my first post the one's you also saw?

I kind of figured in order for those things to function properly, they need enough flow and pressure. I guess that's why the "Diesel Craft System" I posted above works with a small electric oil pump..... not sure about those others I posted if they would work on a SBC.

Yes, I have seen that Racor/Parker site a while back but never looked at those By-Pass filters! Now I know......thanks! I'll be calling them tomorrow!

I came across that Parker site when I was trying to come up with an idea to filter crankcase vapors as a way to keep the carbon down and the intake charge from being contaminated with PCV/Crankcase vapors. Parker makes a "Coalescing CCV" systems to filter the PCV/Crankcase vapors from the intake charge but they don't offer CAD drawings on their site nor other info so I needed to call them....... I learned about so many different types of separator/oil catch cans and most were the junk on e-bay. However, I did find some OEM high end designed systems during my search, including one designed by DANA for VW, Audi and Mercedes that was integrated into the valve cover.....patented of course but I'd like to know if it could be used/modified for other applications.

What the hay. I'll post it so everyone can dream, on another way to keep their oil, clean

!!!!!!

DANA Multi Twister News Release

How They Work!

Technology Brief

MultiTwister Oil/Air Separator Catalog

Anyway, I did find an alternative of using a small coalescing refrigerant filter to do the same and I would've made a small catch reservoir to hold the excess contaminates. The tech support of TEMPRITE also told me that the same exact unit was being marketed by an aftermarket performance company who were selling this SAME Ref. FILTER IN A KIT as a Crankcase Oil/Air separator! Someone else had the same idea, but their design drains the oil/vapor contaminates back into the crankcase which I thought should've gone to a catch can or reservoir to collect and dispose of separately to keep the oil cleaner.

I know, Oil/Air Separators should've been a totally separate topic and thread.....just trying to make a contribution for the cause...on a different way to keep oil clean.

But this info should be spread here on BITOG since it has to do with crankcase vapor filtration and keeping blow-by from re-contaminating the oil supply!


Not sure if you guys here talk about that concept somewhere on the forum regarding the filtering of crankcase vapors......
if so, please tell me....I need to learn if there's anything better.

"Jim", you are using 1 of the first 2 listed "Racor Absolute Series Bypass Oil Cleaners" as seen HERE ?

I guess the "Absolute Bypass Oil Filter Kits" Main Page are Dodge/GM/Ford specific HERE only use a 5 micron filter....right?


Thanks again for that info. and I just wanted to post the above so everyone can "sing and drink along" on this topic!

Kind Regards,
Chris

 

[dnewton3]

To be honest, this topic would be more appropriate in the "bypass filter" section.

This type system is typically an addition to a full flow filter, and as such would function more as a bypass, although its method is not the traditional media style.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: cadchris
Thanks Jim!

So were those centrifugal filters I listed above in my first post the one's you also saw?

I kind of figured in order for those things to function properly, they need enough flow and pressure. I guess that's why the "Diesel Craft System" I posted above works with a small electric oil pump..... not sure about those others I posted if they would work on a SBC.

Yes, I have seen that Racor/Parker site a while back but never looked at those By-Pass filters! Now I know......thanks! I'll be calling them tomorrow!

I came across that Parker site when I was trying to come up with an idea to filter crankcase vapors as a way to keep the carbon down and the intake charge from being contaminated with PCV/Crankcase vapors. Parker makes a "Coalescing CCV" systems to filter the PCV/Crankcase vapors from the intake charge but they don't offer CAD drawings on their site nor other info so I needed to call them....... I learned about so many different types of separator/oil catch cans and most were the junk on e-bay. However, I did find some OEM high end designed systems during my search, including one designed by DANA for VW, Audi and Mercedes that was integrated into the valve cover.....patented of course but I'd like to know if it could be used/modified for other applications.

What the hay. I'll post it so everyone can dream, on another way to keep their oil, clean

!!!!!!

DANA Multi Twister News Release

How They Work!

Technology Brief

MultiTwister Oil/Air Separator Catalog

Anyway, I did find an alternative of using a small coalescing refrigerant filter to do the same and I would've made a small catch reservoir to hold the excess contaminates. The tech support of TEMPRITE also told me that the same exact unit was being marketed by an aftermarket performance company who were selling this SAME Ref. FILTER IN A KIT as a Crankcase Oil/Air separator! Someone else had the same idea, but their design drains the oil/vapor contaminates back into the crankcase which I thought should've gone to a catch can or reservoir to collect and dispose of separately to keep the oil cleaner.

I know, Oil/Air Separators should've been a totally separate topic and thread.....just trying to make a contribution for the cause...on a different way to keep oil clean.

But this info should be spread here on BITOG since it has to do with crankcase vapor filtration and keeping blow-by from re-contaminating the oil supply!


Not sure if you guys here talk about that concept somewhere on the forum regarding the filtering of crankcase vapors......
if so, please tell me....I need to learn if there's anything better.

"Jim", you are using 1 of the first 2 listed "Racor Absolute Series Bypass Oil Cleaners" as seen HERE ?

I guess the "Absolute Bypass Oil Filter Kits" Main Page are Dodge/GM/Ford specific HERE only use a 5 micron filter....right?


Thanks again for that info. and I just wanted to post the above so everyone can "sing and drink along" on this topic!

Kind Regards,
Chris




Yes, the filter you picked out is the one I have on two trucks. They don't have too many application specific kits, so expect some adaptation if you don't have one that fits their applications. Remember, their market is primarily commercial and their product line reflect that. Also, while the kits come with 5um elements, you can change to 3 or 10um at will by replacing the element. As to installation, really, it just comes down to finding a port off a main gallery, as close to the oil pump as possible, and a good spot for a return. My 6.9L diesel was easy. I used the 7.3L Power Stroke kit, though I had to change the return spot. The 5.4L Ford was trickier for several reasons I won't go into, but I got-er-done. A SBC should be a breeze.

 

[OVERKILL]

If you want specific information with regards to a centrifugal filtration, I would PM Doug Hillary, as he has extensive experience with them in field fleet testing for millions of miles.