Take the chance - pour Kreen

[kr_bitog]

After I decided to replace my 1NZ-FE engine and keep the 1 quart Kreen I got months ago, I was itchy to try the kreen on the replacement engine.
The engine is not new, but so far does not consume oil, the part that I am not satisfied is some splash noise when it was first time installed. After that I tried the Ceratec with Mobil 1 EP 5w-30, the first 2000km it was very quiet, but about 8000 km later it was quite noisy. Then I change the oil with my leftover PU Euro L 5w-30, at first was quite quiet, but 2k later it start develop some knocking noise when it was cold.
I am not happy and dump the oil replaced with my leftover cocktail (Amsoil SSO, MCF 5w-40, M1 5w-30 HM and PU 5w-20). The noise disappear, quieter when it is hot, but still can hear rough noise when it hits >3000 rpm.

So since I never flush this engine, and I do not know what I am going to do with the Kreen, I just dump 4 oz to 3.5 quart crankcase.
When I start the engine it noticeable quieter, but can still hear some valvetrain noise above 3000 rpm. After 40 minutes driving run around with various rpm, now the engine is dead quiet.

Well hopefully it stays this way for another 700 km when I supposed to do next servicing.

Just wondering if anyone has tried Kreen on the gas tank ? Any positive result ?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
After I decided to replace my 1NZ-FE engine and keep the 1 quart Kreen I got months ago, I was itchy to try the kreen on the replacement engine.
The engine is not new, but so far does not consume oil, the part that I am not satisfied is some splash noise when it was first time installed. After that I tried the Ceratec with Mobil 1 EP 5w-30, the first 2000km it was very quiet, but about 8000 km later it was quite noisy. Then I change the oil with my leftover PU Euro L 5w-30, at first was quite quiet, but 2k later it start develop some knocking noise when it was cold.
I am not happy and dump the oil replaced with my leftover cocktail (Amsoil SSO, MCF 5w-40, M1 5w-30 HM and PU 5w-20). The noise disappear, quieter when it is hot, but still can hear rough noise when it hits >3000 rpm.

So since I never flush this engine, and I do not know what I am going to do with the Kreen, I just dump 4 oz to 3.5 quart crankcase.
When I start the engine it noticeable quieter, but can still hear some valvetrain noise above 3000 rpm. After 40 minutes driving run around with various rpm, now the engine is dead quiet.

Well hopefully it stays this way for another 700 km when I supposed to do next servicing.

Just wondering if anyone has tried Kreen on the gas tank ? Any positive result ?



I wonder what it says in your engine handbook or maintenance manual? It might just be DON'T USE OIL ADDITIVES, also you should find out first if you have sludge or not before trying some snake oil cure.
If you ever see the oil pressure warning light flicker when hot at idle, your new oil goes black very quickly, the old oil came out of the sump plug in lumps, the turbo just blew up or you can see sludge inside through the filler cap then you do need to read the maintenance manual about how to clean the engine. The section on sludge cleaning probably starts with don't use oil additives again, but if you do think you might have a mild case of black death, then it is safe to use an "Idle only" flush just before the oil change for 10 or 15 mins. Liqui Moly and Amsoil both make good pre OCI flush additives.
There is not always a good correlation between engine noise and wear factors, because if you add oil thickners the engine will sound good when hot, it might then throw a bearing next cold start due to poor oil flow.
You might need to investigate the use of a 40 grade and as it is warm where you are, a 10/40 might be good, but check a good oil finder site for exact details (Castrol, Liqui Moly, Mobil or Shell in the UK, not the US). Hot start rattles are reduced with higher grade oils like a 40, but cold start ones mean you might need a lower 0 or 5W rating, but as you are using a 5W don't bother with trying a 0W as the difference will be minimal.
You mentioned the hot rattle returned after a period of time, which could be because the oil thinned out due to contamination. Are you loosing coolant or does this engine emit any smoke? Fuel contamination will lower the oils viscosity fairly quickly.

 

[LeakySeals]

I poured it in the gas. Had better results with PEA fuel system cleaners. Kreen's home is in the oil. If your looking for something to do with it, suggest piston soaks.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
After I decided to replace my 1NZ-FE engine and keep the 1 quart Kreen I got months ago, I was itchy to try the kreen on the replacement engine.
The engine is not new, but so far does not consume oil, the part that I am not satisfied is some splash noise when it was first time installed. After that I tried the Ceratec with Mobil 1 EP 5w-30, the first 2000km it was very quiet, but about 8000 km later it was quite noisy. Then I change the oil with my leftover PU Euro L 5w-30, at first was quite quiet, but 2k later it start develop some knocking noise when it was cold.
I am not happy and dump the oil replaced with my leftover cocktail (Amsoil SSO, MCF 5w-40, M1 5w-30 HM and PU 5w-20). The noise disappear, quieter when it is hot, but still can hear rough noise when it hits >3000 rpm.

So since I never flush this engine, and I do not know what I am going to do with the Kreen, I just dump 4 oz to 3.5 quart crankcase.
When I start the engine it noticeable quieter, but can still hear some valvetrain noise above 3000 rpm. After 40 minutes driving run around with various rpm, now the engine is dead quiet.

Well hopefully it stays this way for another 700 km when I supposed to do next servicing.

Just wondering if anyone has tried Kreen on the gas tank ? Any positive result ?



I wonder what it says in your engine handbook or maintenance manual? It might just be DON'T USE OIL ADDITIVES, also you should find out first if you have sludge or not before trying some snake oil cure.
If you ever see the oil pressure warning light flicker when hot at idle, your new oil goes black very quickly, the old oil came out of the sump plug in lumps, the turbo just blew up or you can see sludge inside through the filler cap then you do need to read the maintenance manual about how to clean the engine. The section on sludge cleaning probably starts with don't use oil additives again, but if you do think you might have a mild case of black death, then it is safe to use an "Idle only" flush just before the oil change for 10 or 15 mins. Liqui Moly and Amsoil both make good pre OCI flush additives.
There is not always a good correlation between engine noise and wear factors, because if you add oil thickners the engine will sound good when hot, it might then throw a bearing next cold start due to poor oil flow.
You might need to investigate the use of a 40 grade and as it is warm where you are, a 10/40 might be good, but check a good oil finder site for exact details (Castrol, Liqui Moly, Mobil or Shell in the UK, not the US). Hot start rattles are reduced with higher grade oils like a 40, but cold start ones mean you might need a lower 0 or 5W rating, but as you are using a 5W don't bother with trying a 0W as the difference will be minimal.
You mentioned the hot rattle returned after a period of time, which could be because the oil thinned out due to contamination. Are you loosing coolant or does this engine emit any smoke? Fuel contamination will lower the oils viscosity fairly quickly.
I'm sure whoever makes "Kreen" the trendy mouse milk of the moment, knows FAR more about oil technology than Shell and Exxon.

 

[LeakySeals]

skyship - Kreen is not snake oil. You need to try it before saying that. The OP's description of ticks and rattles going away using Kreen is spot on. I first tried Kreen in the oil after 30k of M1 HM use. Thought the engine was quiet and clean after that. Nope, Kreen took it to another level, cleaning deposits and varnish the best oils can't get. Its not a fast flush, you can drive around with it, which makes it more effective. Kreen is for real.

HerrStig - Its been around as long as MMO. Well known in the industrial, commercial and fleet world. Kano Labs has other good products too, Aerokroil is one of them. Best penetrant/lube I've ever used. Freed bolts PB Blaster could not.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
skyship - Kreen is not snake oil. You need to try it before saying that. The OP's description of ticks and rattles going away using Kreen is spot on. I first tried Kreen in the oil after 30k of M1 HM use. Thought the engine was quiet and clean after that. Nope, Kreen took it to another level, cleaning deposits and varnish the best oils can't get. Its not a fast flush, you can drive around with it, which makes it more effective. Kreen is for real.

HerrStig - Its been around as long as MMO. Well known in the industrial, commercial and fleet world. Kano Labs has other good products too, Aerokroil is one of them. Best penetrant/lube I've ever used. Freed bolts PB Blaster could not.


Piston soaking or pre oil OCI flushing are maintenance procedures and some fuel additives are a good idea for some engines if you have to use bad fuel, BUT anything that is not approved or recommended by the engine or car manufacturer should never be added to the oil if you then drive around with it. Of course every person that reads the snake oil advertsing becomes an instant expert and knows far more than the chaps who wrote the maintenance manuals or who put warnings in the handbooks.
Oil additives are in fact one of the causes of sludge as many of them wreck the add pack function or change the nature of the base stock. Any new oil additives are tested by the major oil companies, just in case some back street genius has found a safe cure for very rare sludge cases or a better way of reducing engine wear. So far the results have been a nice round zero apart from one hydraulic fluid additive approved to reduce old box noise levels.
There is nothing wrong with a certain amount of varnish in an older engine and attempting to remove it is not a good idea as it can start oil leaks. If you do see varnish in an older engine (If it's in a new one it might be caused by overheating), just change to an oil with a higher Ca detergent content and consider reducing the OCI.
Sludge cases that occur within the max OCI with an approved or major brand recommended oil in use are very rare. If you see significant sludge do exactly as the book says and clean it top and bottom. With a minor case just clean the sump and oil pump feed screen in particular and use an idle only flush twice with a cheap dino oil and filter before changing to a full synthetic or HM oil etc to finish the job. Watch the oil pressure warning light when using the flush just in case it blocks the oil pump feed.
If you have a terminal phase engine problem that just might be helped by an oil additive that is not included in an HM oil, like a serious leak stopper or thickner added in small doses every week to offset fuel dilution, then buy an additive from a major oil company and the only one that does do a full range of additives is Liqui Moly.
In 99% of cases where owners have an oil system related issue they should just use a better oil (Might just be a different viscosity in some cases) & filter or reduce their OCI if subject to severe service issues or oil contamination.
The only clever thing about oil additives is their advertising, as some of their marketing folks are very good at brainwashing the ill educated, as are some of the major oil brand marketing teams, as they keep advertising full synthetics as the ultimate cure to engine wear, when it makes very little difference unless you push the OCI boundaries.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: skyship
If you have a terminal phase engine problem that just might be helped by an oil additive that is not included in an HM oil, like a serious leak stopper or thickner added in small doses every week to offset fuel dilution, then buy an additive from a major oil company and the only one that does do a full range of additives is Liqui Moly.

The only clever thing about oil additives is their advertising, as some of their marketing folks are very good at brainwashing the ill educated, as are some of the major oil brand marketing teams, as they keep advertising full synthetics as the ultimate cure to engine wear, when it makes very little difference unless you push the OCI boundaries.


Apparently by your own admission, you have been brainwashed by Liqui Moly and their additives. Are you also ill educated?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Same old blather.

And are Stigg and Skyship a team now?

 

[Donald]

No oil additives are what are recommended. If you want the oil to lubricate better, buy better oil. (PU or Amsoil, etc). Do not mess up the oil chemistry with additives.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: skyship
If you have a terminal phase engine problem that just might be helped by an oil additive that is not included in an HM oil, like a serious leak stopper or thickner added in small doses every week to offset fuel dilution, then buy an additive from a major oil company and the only one that does do a full range of additives is Liqui Moly.

The only clever thing about oil additives is their advertising, as some of their marketing folks are very good at brainwashing the ill educated, as are some of the major oil brand marketing teams, as they keep advertising full synthetics as the ultimate cure to engine wear, when it makes very little difference unless you push the OCI boundaries.


Apparently by your own admission, you have been brainwashed by Liqui Moly and their additives. Are you also ill educated?


I use LM oil and even used their idle only flush once (It was a waste of money because the garage used a scope to confirm my engine was not sludged), BUT I only use LM oil because it is cheaper than Castrol and Mobil in Germany.
The LM oil additives have been very thoroughly tested as is the norm for a company in Germany. They won't cause any damage BUT none of them are needed, so I regard them as safe snake oils. Ceretec is attracting some attention from the R&D labs, because it does seem to work to some extent, although it needs to be added every oil change and it has only been tested in conjunction with cheaper LM oils so far and the experts think it might not make a significant difference to engine life as it does nothing for top end wear. I suspect that it will not improve on the performance of a major brand Synthoil but will test it later next year as I was given a bottle for Christmas. If it works and my UOA shows a significant improvement in Pb and Fe numbers I will let you know.

 

[Vikas]

why don't we have a topic where qualitative before and after Kreen results (such as photographs) and vacuum or compression tests are listed? Too many of us put glowing reviews but very few put up the pictures or numbers. If the pictures are posted, they are pretty useless as no attention is given to keeping the tint or light level similar.

 

[bigjl]

The thing is sometimes things do work despite what the manufacturer says in the handbook.

Using 2stroke oil in the fuel of Turbo diesel has been shown to be beneficial.

I have used it on several vehicles, was very effective at quieting down my old Mondeo tdci.

I think there will always be room for oil and fuel additives, if there wasn't oil companies would no longer do any R&D as there would be no point.

I have never had a sludged engine though, and with my OCI's and quality oils I don't think I will.

As I have already said I don't think sludge is a big an issue on cooler running modern diesels.

But if I find myself driving an older neglected petrol engine. Say as a hobby car.

Then I might just give Kreen ago, would be an interesting experiment I think.

If the car is not a DD then I could strip off the rockers covers and document things aswell.

 

[callbay]

We took of the oil pan of a 2005 Dodge Caravan recently do to a loud engine noise that turned out to be a stretched timing chain that was banging on the timing chain cover.

There was a ton of sludge in the bottom of the oil pan and the oil pickup was almost clogged. The rest of the engine was so clean you would have thought it was new.

I had no history of the vehicle.

After posting this on BITOG guys said the previous owner must have done a flush. No real proof just probabillity.

Made me wonder about the dangers of doing a flush.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
The thing is sometimes things do work despite what the manufacturer says in the handbook.

Using 2stroke oil in the fuel of Turbo diesel has been shown to be beneficial.

I have used it on several vehicles, was very effective at quieting down my old Mondeo tdci.

I think there will always be room for oil and fuel additives, if there wasn't oil companies would no longer do any R&D as there would be no point.

I have never had a sludged engine though, and with my OCI's and quality oils I don't think I will.

As I have already said I don't think sludge is a big an issue on cooler running modern diesels.

But if I find myself driving an older neglected petrol engine. Say as a hobby car.

Then I might just give Kreen ago, would be an interesting experiment I think.

If the car is not a DD then I could strip off the rockers covers and document things aswell.



I haven't actually read anything online on it, but I know a lot of local truck drivers are running motor oil or two stroke oil in older trucks now that we have ultra low sulphur diesel.

The ULSD doesn't lubricate the old injection and lift pumps as well.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Donald
No oil additives are what are recommended. If you want the oil to lubricate better, buy better oil. (PU or Amsoil, etc). Do not mess up the oil chemistry with additives.


What perceived problem are they trying to fix?

What do they think the oil formulators missed that makes one buy OTC additives?

How will these chemicals act with the add packs in oil?

They never ask these questions. I stopped using them because I can't answer them. And anecdotes just don't cut it.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
why don't we have a topic where qualitative before and after Kreen results (such as photographs) and vacuum or compression tests are listed? Too many of us put glowing reviews but very few put up the pictures or numbers. If the pictures are posted, they are pretty useless as no attention is given to keeping the tint or light level similar.


You probably know the answer

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: callbay
We took of the oil pan of a 2005 Dodge Caravan recently do to a loud engine noise that turned out to be a stretched timing chain that was banging on the timing chain cover.

There was a ton of sludge in the bottom of the oil pan and the oil pickup was almost clogged. The rest of the engine was so clean you would have thought it was new.

I had no history of the vehicle.

After posting this on BITOG guys said the previous owner must have done a flush. No real proof just probabillity.

Made me wonder about the dangers of doing a flush.


If the top end was clean and all the junk was in the sump, then it was probably a flush additive that was left in too long and fell out of solution after the oils add pack failed and the solvents evapourated. A normal sludge case will look bad both ends, although the danger is mostly from the blocked oil pump intake screen or turbo feed line blockage.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
The thing is sometimes things do work despite what the manufacturer says in the handbook.

Using 2stroke oil in the fuel of Turbo diesel has been shown to be beneficial.

I have used it on several vehicles, was very effective at quieting down my old Mondeo tdci.

I think there will always be room for oil and fuel additives, if there wasn't oil companies would no longer do any R&D as there would be no point.

I have never had a sludged engine though, and with my OCI's and quality oils I don't think I will.

As I have already said I don't think sludge is a big an issue on cooler running modern diesels.

But if I find myself driving an older neglected petrol engine. Say as a hobby car.

Then I might just give Kreen ago, would be an interesting experiment I think.

If the car is not a DD then I could strip off the rockers covers and document things aswell.


There is a good case for using some major brand fuel additives if you are using bad fuel, but it is rare to find a specific engine problem that might benefit from an oil additive, apart from those additives used during maintenance.
If you have a classic car that is sludge prone then check the Castrol oil finder, as they do make some classic car oils with high detergent and Zinc levels. Some local dealers do use LM flush during routine oil changes if the car is an old one.

 

[skyship]

With a good marketing department you could get some vehicle owners to pour a can of vegetable oil into the engine, based on the firm belief that what's good for chips is good for your engine!
I do remember an old Perkins that had its oil topped up with veggie oil in a yacht, as the new crew chap did not know the engine oil and cooking oil were in the same locker and it was dark at the time. The engine went bang in a very permanent way and was followed by a terrible smell of cremated chips.

 

[Trav]

Yeah but you have no problem pushing the other snake oil right.
The other guy pushes Amsoil flush even though he is in England or LM but just for quick flushed.
What a bunch of tripe!