Kestas
Staff member
We just did some reverse-engineering I thought you guys would like to know about. We ran FTIR on Lucas fuel treatment. Basically it is isobutylene in an oil carrier.
Lucas fuel additive reverse-engineered
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Since I am not a chemist, Is isobutylene something good or bad?
Hammer
Are we talking about this stuff (PIB):
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000902/fob3.asp
[ February 24, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: novadude ]
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000902/fob3.asp
[ February 24, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: novadude ]
Cool! Well, IIRC, high molecular weight polyisobutylene is the main ingredient in a fuel additive known as Viscon. It changes the extensional viscosity of gasoline, so that it forms droplets which cause a spread of larger and smaller fuel molecules to clump together, and reduces droplet "wetting" of the cylinder walls... all promoting more complete combustion. Originally developed for the military to prevent aircraft fuel explosions.
Last time I asked questions about high molecular weight PIB here, I got some very nervous replies... especially since I asked it in regards to a highly popular gasoline additive which is a site sponsor here (in fact, their banner ad is at the top of my page right now!)
Last time I asked questions about high molecular weight PIB here, I got some very nervous replies... especially since I asked it in regards to a highly popular gasoline additive which is a site sponsor here (in fact, their banner ad is at the top of my page right now!)
More on PIB for the techie types (from that Viscon site mentioned above:
http://www.gtatech.com/downloads/OctaneBoosterPaper.pdf#search='polyisobutylene engines'
http://www.gtatech.com/downloads/OctaneBoosterPaper.pdf#search='polyisobutylene engines'
MolaKule
Staff member
High molecular weight polymers have long been used as anti-misting components in aviation fuels.
MolaKule
Staff member
Isobutylenes have also been used in 2-cycle oils to reduce emissions such as smoke, and to increase lubricity.
So, in other words, you're saying that this is the main active ingredient in FP?
Kang and others. I also want to know how FP can help clean injectors etc. This is the main reason I just purchased another gallon of FP.
FYI, I did not see any changes in the way my car (95 BMW 525i) performed (it ran well before, during and after using FP)with two shock treatments and 4 tanks a 1 oz per 5 gallons with 93 octane Chevron. I believe my engine is clean and want to keep it clean. This is interesting!
FYI, I did not see any changes in the way my car (95 BMW 525i) performed (it ran well before, during and after using FP)with two shock treatments and 4 tanks a 1 oz per 5 gallons with 93 octane Chevron. I believe my engine is clean and want to keep it clean. This is interesting!
MolaKule
Staff member
The compounds in FP have never been disclosed and silence doesn't mean that the ingredient in question is contained therein.
Reading through this paper, it would seem FP does have PIB as a component.
http://www.gtatech.com/downloads/OctaneBoosterPaper.pdf#search='polyisobutylene engines'
Many people have noted an increase in mileage, and I know that the effect on octane has been talked about by Molakule in regards to FP. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck?
Also reading through the paper, it seems there are a lot of unknown factors in internal combustion due to design, swirl characteristics etc.. So maybe that is why some people note a increase in gas mileage, and some do not. I guess this could be attributed to the efficiency and design of a particular engine. Possibly, inefficient IC designs could see a better "return" by using FP?
[ February 24, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Bobert ]
JHZR2
Staff member
Funny, the energy value in this chemical isnt all that high, and I doubt the LHV/HHV is much dfferent at all from gasoline. So I have a hard time seeing how anyone can see how a chemical can increase mileage, unless its a real solvent that cleans out any little spec of build up anywhere in an engine. Still, that would require you to have a dirty engine first.
Not trying to be rude, I just never buy the idea that anything raises the energy content or the ability to extract that much more chemical energy to improve mileage.
JMH
So is the concensus that Lucas UCL is good or bad? I have a large jug that I stopped using after a few negative posts.
I think Lucas UCL is a good product based on use. I have not seen what my UOA looks like with stuff. It does consistently raise my MPG by 1-3 MPG depending on summer versus winter fuel! I have no idea if it cleans as it claims or not. I do know that BOB did some back yard testing and Lucas UCL did well in the testing! I have not used FP so I can not coment.
If I had to guess I would guess that Fuel Power contained polyetheramine in addition to other ingredients. PIB can cause combustion chamber deposits if it is not properly formulated! So do not run out and buy PIB by the 55 gallon drum! Like wise crysilic acid can remove carbon build up from combustion chambers but you do not add a can of "Clean Burn or CLean Sweep" to your gasoline!
That's the active ingredient in Techron Concentrate that was engineered and is currently manufactured by Chevron. Many other fuel system treatments (like Regaine 30% polyetheramine 60% kerosene) use it too.
Guys like others here I am restricted by secrecy agreements in disclosing components of FP.
For you chemists,(JMH), can you account for the time period that the adds mentioned above came into use in automotive fuels?
Remember FP was developed in the late 1940's.
Unique IS the term I can share !
Of course, " I can neither confirm nor deny the existance of nuclear weapons on board this aircraft", whoops wrong proprietary agreement...
For you chemists,(JMH), can you account for the time period that the adds mentioned above came into use in automotive fuels?
Remember FP was developed in the late 1940's.
Unique IS the term I can share !
Of course, " I can neither confirm nor deny the existance of nuclear weapons on board this aircraft", whoops wrong proprietary agreement...
Hmmm. More than a year ago (I think) I asked in this forum (no replies) if "GTA Fuel Enhancer" was the same stuff was Lucas Fuel Additive. It seems as though it is.
That being said, a good friend has been running Lucas FE for a long time in his Ford 460, with considerable mileage gains. I convinced him to try Fuel Power for 2-3 tanks. He showed no difference.
I'm showing no noticeable difference in my 2002 Honda Accord V6, either. My '92 Buick Roadmaster (350 cid) showed 10-15% improvement.
That being said, a good friend has been running Lucas FE for a long time in his Ford 460, with considerable mileage gains. I convinced him to try Fuel Power for 2-3 tanks. He showed no difference.
I'm showing no noticeable difference in my 2002 Honda Accord V6, either. My '92 Buick Roadmaster (350 cid) showed 10-15% improvement.
MolaKule
Staff member
FWIW, The primary purpose of isobutylene's is to increase lubricity.
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