Idemitsu (Honda) 0W-20, 3614 kms, Caterham

[CATERHAM]

-The time on the oil is 17 months.
-The engine in my Caterham is a 2L 16V DOHC Cosworth/Vauxhall C20XE (GM of England}, 190 hp, twin dual venturi Weber 45DCOE carb's with no starting chokes.

-The spec' oil grade is 5W-50 but that's for all engines regardless of state of tune for this engine family that ranges from 165 hp to 250 hp.
-The oil also contained 2oz of Red Line Break-In additive to boost the Phos' level.

The engine has a hard life including track days and fast road work. The engine is started infrequently, months can go by in the winter without the car being started or driven. When it is started the car is always driven enough to bring oil temp's up to at least 75C usually 80C before shutting it down. Maximum street oil temp's are 85C and normal maximum oil temp's on the track is 95C with one session of hitting 105C when the oil was fresh (no time to remove the sump shroud at a track event).
I usually wait until the oil temp's have reached 70C before using max' rev's but not always since it can take 25 minutes to do so.

Since the engine is not equipped with starting chokes, the method for starting the engine cold is the rather primative priming with raw fuel. That envolves turning on the electric fuel pump and depressing the throttle to the floor, usually just once, to squirt fuel into the four intakes. It usually will fire right up after that and the throttle needs to be depressed a bit for 30 seconds or so before it will run cleanly. It will usually idle after that at a low rpm even though cold. That's one main advantages of running a high VI light 0W-20 oil, when I ran heavier oils, due to the higher oil drag, it could take 10 minutes of running time before the engine would idle; a major drag, pun intended.

In light of the starting procedure and the fact that it has carb's tuned on the rich side for power, there is no fuel in the UOA. I credit that to always bringing the oil up to at least moderate oil temp's evey time the engine is started. I think that is part of the reason for the still high 6 TBN.

On balance I'm pleased with the relatively low wear numbers although I do wonder if installing a pre-oiler to bring the oil pressure up prior to starting would reduce the 4 ppm of lead. If it's been more than a few days since the engine has been run there is a light rattle for a second on start-up that does bother me but I'm sure I'm just being overly anal.

I suspect I could have doubled the length of the oil change interval to 3 years or more.

 

[CharlieJ]

So you track this car with 0w20, correct?

 

[JOD]

The TBN listed is higher than on the VOA's I've seen with this oil! I realize that there's some variance between labs, but it's still surprising.

I pulled a sample to send in from my last oil change with this oil, because I'm a bit lost on how long to run it--and I have a lot left!

Regardless, it looks good.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: CharlieJ
So you track this car with 0w20, correct?

That's right and it's thrashed mercilessly at the track.
Best lap time at Mosport for those that know the track is 1'39".
I can maintain my minimum desired oil pressure of 65 psi with this oil.

 

[CATERHAM]

One point I forgot to comment on is the high silicon content of 17 ppm. I'm running K&N's which aren't known for being the best at least as far as their filtering ability other than keeping out larger rocks and small birds. I'm sad to admit actually hitting a small bird at the track. The exposed filters kept out most of what remained of the small unfortunate animal as far as I can tell.
I might try a Pipercross air filter which Caterham Cars are now using.

 

[21Rouge]

It is hard to believe that after almost 6500 (very informative) posts this I believe is CATERHAM's very first posted UOA (for his own vehicle).

Hopefully this is a sign of future UOAs to come.

In any event congrats.

 

[Obos]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
That envolves turning on the electric fuel pump and depressing the throttle to the floor, usually just once, to squirt fuel into the four intakes.

If it's been more than a few days since the engine has been run there is a light rattle for a second on start-up that does bother me but I'm sure I'm just being overly anal


Since you mention you might be a little anal, I have noticed you getting your "e's" and "i's" mixed up.

But in any case, thanks for the informative post.

I mean running a 20 weight in a engine spec'd for a 50 weight and then on the track!

I'm sure there will be some (literally) thick folks taking issue with you on that

 

[CATERHAM]

Thanks 21Rouge.
I do have two Toromont prepaid kits left.
Unfortunately I don't rack up enough mileage to make a UOA all that useful and most are blends.
Anyway this UOA was straight Idemitsu 0W-20 other than the two oz of RL.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Obos
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Since you mention you might be a little anal, I have noticed you getting your "e's" and "i's" mixed up.

But in any case, thanks for the informative post.

I mean running a 20 weight in a engine spec'd for a 50 weight and then on the track!

I'm sure there will be some (literally) thick folks taking issue with you on that

Thanks, I should check my spelling more often.

Not too worried about the thick folks taking issue. Besides I've yet to here from one that knows how to use an oil pressure or oil temperature gauge.

 

[webfors]

I like that Moly!!

Nice report, oil held up great. As mentioned lots of life left too.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Besides I've yet to here from one that knows how to use an oil pressure or oil temperature gauge.

Yep your the only one that knows how to use one.

Quote:
The spec' oil grade is 5W-50 but that's for all engines regardless of state of tune for this engine family that ranges from 165 hp to 250 hp

This is what gets me with you. You complain when people recommend 40w instead of a 30w but you go against the manufacturers spec a full 3 grades and its fine because your a self proclaimed expert.

As far as this UOA goes. I take the claimed track use with a grain of salt.

 

[Obos]

Originally Posted By: Trav

As far as this UOA goes. I take the claimed track use with a grain of salt.


Whoaaa!

I thought you might be doubting the UOA

But you're suggesting the OP did not drive his racing car the way he said he did.

What is your rationale for that conclusion?

Why would the OP say he did track the car extensively if he didn't? What has he possibly got to gain by claiming he did something he didn't?

 

[Trav]

He undoubtedly will be using this so called "Proof" that 20w works in 50w spec engines used on the track in the near future.
Just my opinion.

 

[Obos]

But he does seems to be saying that oil pressure and temperature have a bearing (pardon the pun) on his specific choice.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I take the claimed track use with a grain of salt.


Trav, what evidence do you have that CATERHAM's statement of his track use is untrue? I am being rhetorical as of course you have none.

Moderators, surely such a statement at the least warrants a warning to "Trav"; maybe a reminder re the importance to the health of a forum of proper and civil posting by its members.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Trav, what evidence do you have that CATERHAM's statement of his track use is untrue? I am being rhetorical as of course you have none.

What are you the correct police?
I said..
Quote:
As far as this UOA goes. I take the claimed track use with a grain of salt.

I didn't say it want true or he didn't track the car i said i take it with a grain of salt. Meaning just that. My mother drives 70 and she claims to be racing.
When he says "That's right and it's thrashed mercilessly at the track" thats totally subjective and meaningless.


Quote:
Moderators, surely such a statement at the least warrants a warning to "Trav"; maybe a reminder re the importance to the health of a forum of proper and civil posting by its members.

So now YOU decide who should be warned?
You don't like it? Tough!

 

[tc1446]

Caterham: was the 0W-20 a blend or full syn? AFAIK, local Honda dealers sell only a blend, but I'm thinking Honda does sell a full syn.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Trav
When he says "That's right and it's thrashed mercilessly at the track" thats totally subjective and meaningless.

"Trav", instead of the questioning the veracity of a fellow BITOGER's statement you wouldn't have lost anything by just assuming that the UOA had good wear #s in spite of the track use.

But I guess it begs the question as to what would it take for you to to sheepishly agree that this car during this OCI did experience very vigorous track use?

Originally Posted By: Trav
You don't like it? Tough!

I am guessing that public speaking is not part of your current job description? (ain't for me either or should that be not for me neither?

)

 

[fdcg27]

Caterham did post that he turned a 1:39 lap at Mosport, which is evidence of pretty vigorous use.
Caterham is using light oils because his contention is that there is no advantage in a thicker oil where a thinner oil can maintain adequate oil pressure under the operating conditions in which it's used, and I can't imagine that this clone of a minimalist Lotus is good for much beyond track use.
The results he's had with a 0W-20 in track use with this engine speak for themselves.
Could it be that the use of forty grade oils in a variety of Euro applications for decades has been based upon a false premise, or at least one that's now obsolete?

 

[Hounds]

Caterham, did I understand you correctly that it can take 25 minutes for your Caterham's oil temperature to reach 70C (158F), and that the highest oil temperature you've (ever?) seen in track use is 105C (225F)?

If so, this certainly would go a long way in explaining why you can run 0W-20 weight oil in your Caterham.