Installing Lug Nuts: in the air vs on the ground

[The Critic]

In the past, I used to finger tighten lug nuts when the car was in the air, then lower the car and hand-torque all lug nuts to the proper spec. If I was feeling paranoid that day, I would also drive the car around the block and retorque all of the lug nuts upon my return.

I read a post somewhere that my method does not properly seat the wheel and could result in the wheels coming off. Now, I've never had an issue and neither do many of my friends who use this method.

Since then, I've finger tighten the lug nuts (or bolts) while the car was in the air, and fully (or almost fully) tighten the lug nuts with my impact and a torque stick while the car is still raised. And once the car is lowered, I would recheck with a torque wrench.

So, is fully tightening (or nearly) the lug nuts while the the car is raised, really that important for proper wheel installation?

Thoughts, experiences, commentary...all appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Carnoobie]

Install in air, usually hand tight, torque to spec on ground.

And its actually better to torque by hand at first because impact gun can strip your threads.

 

[gathermewool]

I hand-tighten all nuts before lowering, and then lower the lift until there's enough friction between the tires and the ground to torque to spec. It's incredibly easy to do, so why not?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Install in air, usually hand tight, torque to spec on ground.

And its actually better to torque by hand at first because impact gun can strip your threads.


Since I fully tighten them by hand before hitting 'em with my impact, I cannot see how this would be a problem. Plus, I usually use a torque stick for 80 ft-lbs...if not, I learned today that 2 "clicks" on my impact delivers a consistent 90 ft-lbs.

 

[oilboy123]

I either snug with a wrench, or impact and drop the wheels fully or partially to the ground then torque.

 

[tom slick]

I hand tighten in the air then torque on the ground. I even use anti-sieze and on occasion used a harbor freight torque wrench. That's on American, German, and Japanese vehicles with disc and drum brakes, lug nuts and lug studs. In 20+ years I've had zero wheels come off, zero loose lug nuts, and zero stripped studs. I'm not worried and I put my family in these vehicles.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Install in air, usually hand tight, torque to spec on ground.

And its actually better to torque by hand at first because impact gun can strip your threads.


Since I fully tighten them by hand before hitting 'em with my impact, I cannot see how this would be a problem. Plus, I usually use a torque stick for 80 ft-lbs...if not, I learned today that 2 "clicks" on my impact delivers a consistent 90 ft-lbs.


Pretty much all shops here install all nuts with impact gun, ive never seen a single one use their hand. They use the impact gun right from the start and thats bad for the lugnut threads.

A lot of shops here just throw it on and dont even use a torque wrench when on ground and most cases your nuts are too tight. They just jam them on there til they go no more.

And everyone has their own definition of what they torque to. I once had a mech torque my wheels to 300ft lbs, but luckily i only drove on that for 2hrs before having the wheels off again. The mech had a helluva time to get them off.

 

[huffmuds9320]

I have always hand tighten the bolts before lower it on the ground. Some cars the lug nuts are kind of recessed so I use the lug wrench to make them snug first. Then I use the torque wrench to tighten it. Then I drive the car out the driveway and double check all the lug nuts with the torque wrench.

 

[Colt45ws]

Hand start them, I tap them with an impact, then drop it and tighten to spec.

 

[RiceCake]

My procedure has always been:

Wheel on,
Hand tighten all nuts,
Drop car,
Tighten all bolts by hand fairly tight,
Drive around the block,
Tighten that last little "bit",
Beer time.

I never use a torque wrench personally, never had an issue. Its important to check the lugs after you've driven a bit, I've had bolts come loose on two friends cars so far on two separate occasions because they neglected to double-check. No crashes, but its pretty insane to be driving around and hear a rumbling, only to find out you can remove a few bolts with your fingers.

Unless you have a limiting stick I'd never impact a tire on. I'd enjoy beating many a tire mechanics to death for impacting a tire on, only to get a flat and have to endure the fight to remove the nuts. Over-tightening is completely unnecessary and a futile pursuit of "tighter feels better".

Also I'd never tighten anything on a car in the air with a wrench. An impact maybe but no matter how secure the car is, you'd be stupid to be pushing it around like that.

 

[djb]

All of the responses have been "what I do is..."

No one identified the issue.

Most modern car wheels are 'hub centric', the centering is established by the slip fit of the wheel bore on a lip or flange. The lip has a rounded edge or slight taper so that the initial tightening of the bolts/nuts provides precisely centers the wheel. It doesn't matter if the final tightening is done in the air or on the ground.

An alternate design is lug centered, where the conical or spherical feature of the lug nut positions the wheel relative to the lug holes. With this design it's important to tighten the lug nuts evenly with minimal weight on the wheel. If the wheel isn't precisely centered when initial clamping pressure is established, it will remain off-center.

 

[eljefino]

^ There you go.

 

[George7941]

Originally Posted By: djb

Most modern car wheels are 'hub centric'


Gotta be careful here. Most modern car wheels appear to be hub-centric bacause the hole in the middle of the wheel is a nice snug fit on to the hub. My Sierra wheels fits nicely on to the hubs.

But that does not necessarily mean that they are hub-centric. True hub-centric wheels have flat-flanged lug nuts and this way the lug nuts play no role in centering the wheel. This is the way with medium and heavy duty trucks.

My Sierra has lug nuts with a cone-shaped mating surface and thus it is really a lug-centric wheel. I think most cars have the conical lug nuts.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Hand start them, I tap them with an impact, then drop it and tighten to spec.


That's what I do.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
I hand tighten in the air then torque on the ground. I even use anti-sieze and on occasion used a harbor freight torque wrench. That's on American, German, and Japanese vehicles with disc and drum brakes, lug nuts and lug studs. In 20+ years I've had zero wheels come off, zero loose lug nuts, and zero stripped studs. I'm not worried and I put my family in these vehicles.


I'm surprised no one commented. I'm sure you won't change, but you should not use anti-sieze. Two problems, your wheels can actually come loose. Second problem, you get more torque and can break lugs.

If your lugs are dirty/rusty, use a wire brush on them.

 

[punisher]

Car on the lift, snug all lugs with impact, snug, not tighten. Run all lugs to spec with a torque stick in crisscross pattern, have helper drive the car out.

My personal cars, wheel in the air, snug all lugs with impact, snug, not tighten. Run all lugs to spec with a torque stick in crisscross pattern, have wife test drive it.

 

[cutter]

In the air, I use a socket wrench and my left hand grabbing the spoke to tighten. It's more than hand tight but not finished yet. Then on the ground goes on the big 1/2" torque wrench.

 

[RiceCake]

OP asked for advice, not a solution to an "issue", so I wouldn't start claiming that anyone saying "what I do is" is doing anything but just offering advice.

 

[1 FMF]

I would be most concerned with car on the ground the weight of the vehicle on the wheel and friction of the tire on the ground keeping the rim from tightening evenly and having induced runout. That will warp your rotors and cause vibrations. Whether or not a hub centric or conical seat lugnuts would prevent this i don't know, I'd be inclined to think no on heavier vehicles having only 5 lugs vs 6 vs 8. My preferred method and this is personal preference is to tighten the lugs via tq wrench to around 40 lb-ft. with wheel in the air. Up to 40 lb-ft you can hold the wheel by hand from rotating. Then lower the car till tire contacts ground then drop suspension about an inch more to have enough weight and tire friction to tighten to 100 lb-ft. but the best alternative if you have a 2nd person or a piece of wood is depress the brake pedal and let the brake caliper hold the wheel from spinning then tighten the lugs to 100 lb-ft with wheel completely in the air, this would be the best way to get even tightening and zero possibility of runout.
so i guess the question becomes, if i tighten the wheel with car not supported and full weight is on the wheel on the ground is there any runout or is the hub not centered? how can you measure it, is it worth the time and effort when you can do it the way i mentioned or maybe other ways that prevents any problems? or you can do it and drive it for a few thousand miles and see what happens. as long as you get torque to 100 lb-ft or what the required torque for that size thread and pitch is the lugnuts won't come loose. even if you use antiseize, as long as you reach the torque value where the stud starts to stretch which is usually 70% of the dry spec the lugs won't come loose.

 

[PandaBear]

Usually I tighten them so they are not floating around in the air. Then I land it and "foot tighten" it to around 75lb (I'm around 150lb, so I stop when I feel it is around the same weight on both feet).