Seafoam

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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

As a cleaner, Seafoam works reasonably well. That's what you get with something based on stoddard solvent.... a cleaner.

As a lubricant, well, I'm betting it is no better than WD40 based on the addition of bright stock to the stoddard solvent.


Who said Seafoam was to be used as a lubricant? Just because some of us talk about adding it to the crankcase doesn't mean it is being added as a lubricant.


Well, the role of what goes in the crankcase is to lubricate the engine, hence, lubricant. So, if you are using Seafoam in the crankcase, it is being used as a lubricant.


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Seafoam is a cleaner. moisture remover, and fuel stabilizer period and end of story.


Seafoam is stoddard solvent and bright stock with a hint of wintergreen for fragrance. Dress it up all you want, it is very similar to WD40. But I don't see people on here claiming that WD40 should be put in your crankcase.

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Haven't seen anyone say otherwise. Just because it isn't oil however does not mean it will harm the engine if used properly.


The fact that it isn't oil is the exact reason as to why it shouldn't be used in the crankcase.

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Have you ever used it in your crankcase and had it do something bad?


No, because I don't put things that aren't oil in my crankcase.

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Ever used it in there ever?


See above.

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If not then why are you telling others not to or cracking wise about those of us that have?


1. Manufacturers specify to not put things that aren't oil in the crankcase.

2. In a device that is pressure and boundary lubricated the only thing I want circulating in that device is a lubricant designed to do just that.

3. If somebody spins a rod bearing on a car under warranty because they thinned their already thin 5w20 with Seafoam in search for its magical abilities and the manufacturer voids their warranty and they are on the hook for a new engine, is Seafoam going to buy them a new engine? Are you?


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Many of us have used it in the crankcase, and done so for years and years, with nothing but great results. Believe it or not many of us are just as anal about our vehicles as you are.


I would never advocate the use of any product that could potentially void somebody's warranty when used in the crankcase. That's my position and it is a safe (and admittedly conservative) one.

Seafoam through the vacuum line, as a piston soak, as a cleaner....etc, those uses I am perfectly fine with and with people recommending them.


If you never have used it then your opinion means little. Especially to those who have.


I didn't say I haven't used it. I said I haven't used it in my crankcase and gave a rather in depth explanation as to why. If you want to run horse pee in your crankcase, go right ahead. Just keep in mind if you start telling people that it is a good idea, I'm going to post the same thing about horse pee.

This isn't about seafoam, it is about putting things that don't belong in the crankcase, in the crankcase. And ALL of the auto manufacturers agree with me on this stance, so it isn't like I'm forging ahead with this crusade on my own with no basis for my argument........
 
Ford's stance:
fordoilspec.jpg


BMW's stance:
bmwoilspec.jpg


If you'd like further examples, just take a look in your owners manual. This isn't some baseless posturing to cause you undue grief, it is the stance of the automotive manufacturers and can cause warranty issues for people still covered by their powertrain warranty.
 
A typical manufacturers stance, and I don't blame them a bit. You think Ford is going to sort through or test hundreds of products and then list a handful that my be useful? Not a chance, much easier to just say "don't do it", which is what I would also do if I were in their shoes.

And many will turn right around and sell various bottled fixes in their very own service department, but that they can control, which is the point.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A typical manufacturers stance, and I don't blame them a bit. You think Ford is going to sort through or test hundreds of products and then list a handful that my be useful? Not a chance, much easier to just say "don't do it", which is what I would also do if I were in their shoes.

And many will turn right around and sell various bottled fixes in their very own service department, but that they can control, which is the point.


They certainly do, I listed them earlier in the thread. But none of those go in the crankcase that I've ever seen. Fuel treatments, throttle body cleaners, carbon removers.....etc all kinds of additives. Just not crankcase ones.

One exception would be GM EOS, but then it isn't a solvent either.
 
Just to clarify one point, I'm not anti fuel additives if they are approved or recommended by an engine manufacturer and a number of fuel additives are, BUT most cars that use good quality fuel will never need a fuel additive. If you do have to buy poor quality fuel then the situation is different.
A lot of people use fuel additives because they think they protect the injectors from wearing out or failing, when they don't. The two main reasons for injector failures are bad fuel filitration and corrosion due to lack of use.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

If you'd like further examples, just take a look in your owners manual. This isn't some baseless posturing to cause you undue grief, it is the stance of the automotive manufacturers and can cause warranty issues for people still covered by their powertrain warranty.


Absolutely agreed as long as warranty is in play. it's downright risky to play with that unless you are financially prepared to take the hit.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

If you'd like further examples, just take a look in your owners manual. This isn't some baseless posturing to cause you undue grief, it is the stance of the automotive manufacturers and can cause warranty issues for people still covered by their powertrain warranty.


There is no way a car mfg will know you used Seafoam in your crankcase for 15 minutes/25 miles "if" it caused a problem. Not unless the vehicle was towed in and the Seafoam was still in the crankcase and they tested the oil. Other than them being able to test the oil to discover it they have no way of knowing. Well, unless you tell them.

I am a huge "follow the warranty requirements guy" as any regular member here knows from my years of posting. On this issue though it seems like a very lame reason not to use Seafoam( not meant to be offensive ). Car mfg's tell us all kinds of things not to use/do that we all know are perfectly ok to use/do. Just their way of covering themselves if by some remote chance that thing did cause an issue.

Seafoam has a very long and well documented history of doing what it is advertised as doing. "IF" it was going to harm the engine if run in the crankcase there would be plenty of proof out there by now. The mfg would have been sued and more than likely stopped recommending it's use in that way as well. Just not the case. There are more documented instances out there of an oil filter failing and taking an engine out than problems with Seafoam( in the crankcase ).

I think some of you are just tilting at windmills here.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

They certainly do, I listed them earlier in the thread. But none of those go in the crankcase that I've ever seen. Fuel treatments, throttle body cleaners, carbon removers.....etc all kinds of additives. Just not crankcase ones.

One exception would be GM EOS, but then it isn't a solvent either.


Not sure if they still offer it or not but when I worked at Ford( local dealer )they offered an engine flush. Came in a Ford can like all the other chemicals.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

They certainly do, I listed them earlier in the thread. But none of those go in the crankcase that I've ever seen. Fuel treatments, throttle body cleaners, carbon removers.....etc all kinds of additives. Just not crankcase ones.

One exception would be GM EOS, but then it isn't a solvent either.


Not sure if they still offer it or not but when I worked at Ford( local dealer )they offered an engine flush. Came in a Ford can like all the other chemicals.


AMSOIL offers one too. But AFAIK, it also isn't marketed as a solvent for other purposes
smile.gif


I've never seen the Ford one, but if they've put their name on it, they are liable for what it does.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

If you never have used it then your opinion means little. Especially to those who have.


I didn't say I haven't used it. I said I haven't used it in my crankcase and gave a rather in depth explanation as to why. If you want to run horse pee in your crankcase, go right ahead. Just keep in mind if you start telling people that it is a good idea, I'm going to post the same thing about horse pee.

This isn't about seafoam, it is about putting things that don't belong in the crankcase, in the crankcase. And ALL of the auto manufacturers agree with me on this stance, so it isn't like I'm forging ahead with this crusade on my own with no basis for my argument........


The point is we are talking about it being used in the crankcase. You have stated not to that it could harm something, and have argued with those who have used it and basically called them nuts for doing so, yet by your own admission you have never used it in your crankcase. You can spout all the reasons not to use it you wish but they hold little value compared to comments from those who actually have used it( in the crankcase ). Your reasons not to use it( in the crankcase )might hold more validity if there wasn't so much real world proof out there that it works and will not hurt anything. You remind me of the guy walking down the street with the "The World Is Ending" sign hanging off his shoulders trying to scare everyone.

Let's try this. How about you find some examples of Seafoam causing engine damage when used in the crankcase. If it is as bad as you claim it is when used there you should have no problem finding plenty of examples to back up your theories. I hate to throw out that tired old BITOG challenge but it really is appropriate here. Show me real world, and not just in your head, where it has actually harmed a few engines( one is not a conclusive sample - need multiple )when used in the crankcase. Also, try and compare the # you find to the # of positive reviews to see what % of those who have used it in the crankcase have actually had it cause a problem vs those who have not. I bet you could find more engine failures, and a higher % rate, from cheap oil filters failing than from using Seafoam in the crankcase

Remember, no one is saying throw a can in and then hit the drag strip for the weekend or tow a 10,000lbs load across country. It's use is being advocated under controlled situations where it can do it's job and not hurt anything. I will repeat I have used it for years( even longer than RP )and I have never had a problem with it in the crankcase or anywhere else. It is a very good product in my experience. Not crazy about it in the gas tank( better options IMO )but in the crankcase to free sticking lifters, to remove moisture, and as a flush it works very well. Through a vacuum source to clean the CC it also works very well.

If you don't wish to use it I could care less. I just don't see how you can be so adament about not using it( in the crankcase )if you never have and thus have no experience to back up your arguments/stance when discussing this with those of us who have? That is liek me giving a woman advice on giving birth.
 
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

If you'd like further examples, just take a look in your owners manual. This isn't some baseless posturing to cause you undue grief, it is the stance of the automotive manufacturers and can cause warranty issues for people still covered by their powertrain warranty.


There is no way a car mfg will know you used Seafoam in your crankcase for 15 minutes/25 miles "if" it caused a problem. Not unless the vehicle was towed in and the Seafoam was still in the crankcase and they tested the oil. Other than them being able to test the oil to discover it they have no way of knowing. Well, unless you tell them.


That would be dishonest though, no?

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I am a huge "follow the warranty requirements guy" as any regular member here knows from my years of posting. On this issue though it seems like a very lame reason not to use Seafoam( not meant to be offensive ). Car mfg's tell us all kinds of things not to use/do that we all know are perfectly ok to use/do. Just their way of covering themselves if by some remote chance that thing did cause an issue.


For an under warranty situation, I think it is a good reason.

For a not under warranty situation, I think as long as the person is made aware of the fact that a solvent, ANY solvent, can be potentially dangerous due to it breaking free large chunks of build-up and clogging the pick-up, the filter....etc and will also thin the oil, and if they know this and continue to go ahead, that's fine.

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Seafoam has a very long and well documented history of doing what it is advertised as doing. "IF" it was going to harm the engine if run in the crankcase there would be plenty of proof out there by now. The mfg would have been sued and more than likely stopped recommending it's use in that way as well.


Many of the cases I see of people using solvents in their oil on this board are cars that already have serious issues:

-Sludge
-Stuck rings
-Massive varnish build-up
-Smoking

They have a vehicle that is long out of warranty and are faced with either living with the problem(s) or using a cleaner as a less expensive route to avoid having to do a tear down. Because on a lot of these cars, a tear down and rebuild is going to cost more than the car is worth.

If Joe Blow with his Saturn and stuck rings runs Seafoam in his car that drinks 1L/500 miles and it doesn't get better, he's not going to sue Seafoam. And if the engine fails, he's not going to sue them either, as he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Now, as far as people I know that use Seafoam, they all use it for the same purposes as I've used it: Cleaning carbon, varnish...etc. I know one guy who swears by it as a diesel conditioner in his Cummins. I don't know anybody who uses it in the crankcase. Now this is admittedly a small sample, but if it is representative of the typical uses of the product, then I'd argue that in the role(s) that the product is primarily used for (and marketed for) it is certainly successful at these things.

What I'm trying to say is that Seafoam is advertised to do a number of things, only one of which is as a crankcase additive. I have no doubt in my mind that Seafoam has a very long and well documented history (as you put it) of doing these things. I've used it myself for many of these purposes.

If the "typical" sample of people on this board who use it in the crankcase is as example of that demographic as a whole (yourself excluded) then they are already dealing with something on its last legs and there would never be any sort of pursuit of Seafoam for any kind of liability if their engine were to fail or get worse at that point in its life.

I could be completely wrong, but that's my take on it
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Just not the case. There are more documented instances out there of an oil filter failing and taking an engine out than problems with Seafoam( in the crankcase ).

I think some of you are just tilting at windmills here.


I'm just concerned about the personal liability of condoning the use of a solvent in the crankcase in a broad brushed manner without mention of the caveats that go along with such an approach. I haven't been shy about making it clear that this isn't something I would ever do, but I'm not going to sit here and condemn you for doing it, as what you do with your car is your own business and I have no right to tell you otherwise.

What I will say is that as long as somebody is clear about the potential repercussions if something DOES go sideways, and that it shouldn't be done under warranty AND they have experience with the product used in this manner, then I will respect their position on the subject.

Otherwise, I will, as I have here, point to the manufacturer's stance on the use of such products in the crankcase, the potential effects on any powertrain warranty that may be in place and of course the risks of using a solvent in a place where only a lubricant is specified.

Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from here
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Ford's stance:
fordoilspec.jpg


BMW's stance:
bmwoilspec.jpg


If you'd like further examples, just take a look in your owners manual. This isn't some baseless posturing to cause you undue grief, it is the stance of the automotive manufacturers and can cause warranty issues for people still covered by their powertrain warranty.


I think the last part of that scan you have there made me LOL. So the BMW oil's you buy at the dealer don't have any additives in it?
 
I placed about four ounces Seafoam in the crankcase of The Beast two days ago. I think this is fine if a person does not overdo it. My main concern is that Seafoam is very fluid, and will reduce oil viscosity. So do not use a lot at a time.
 
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