Fuchs GT1 PRO XTL 5w30 11 kkm, Skoda Octavia, 1.9

[zak14]

Here’s the analysis of Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C3 XTL 5w30 at 86 km, 5.5kkm and 11 kkm. Left column is Motul X-clean+ 5w30 – sample taken just after 33 km to check residual metals level and initial TBN depletion after oil change.
VOAs of both: Fuchs and Motul are published in VOA thread.

 

[fdcg27]

Thanks for posting this, since we don't get to see many UOAs of Euro cars run on Euro oils and fuels.
This car is a VW, right?
When I think of Skoda, I think of the old-school rear engined cars, which were available as late as 1990 IIRC.
Is it just me, or did the Fuchs oil seem to produce a lot of wear for less than 7K miles?
Both the Fuchs and the Motul you're now running look to have pretty weak additive levels, kind of like Synpower without the sodium.
Are these low additive levels required for the car's emissions system?
Is there an oil with a stronger add pack that would meet this car's oil requirements?
Viscosity did hold up very well with the Fuchs oil, and the adds look to have kept TBN up to an acceptable level.

 

[zak14]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
This car is a VW, right?


It's 80% VW

Engine is typicall VW 1.9 TDI-PD (BXE)

Quote:
When I think of Skoda, I think of the old-school rear engined cars, which were available as late as 1990 IIRC.

Now it looks like this:

Quote:
Is it just me, or did the Fuchs oil seem to produce a lot of wear for less than 7K miles?

Quite a lot, but keep in mind that the engine was only ~15K miles, so still running in.

Quote:
Both the Fuchs and the Motul you're now running look to have pretty weak additive levels, kind of like Synpower without the sodium.
Are these low additive levels required for the car's emissions system?
Is there an oil with a stronger add pack that would meet this car's oil requirements?

These are typical VW 504/507 oils designed for LL run and DPF compatibility. Since I don’t have DPF I can also consider 505.01 and 506.01 which have stronger add packs, but vw 507 is recommended as first choice oil according to manual/dealers and I wanted to test it. Next month I’ll switch to 506.01 0w30 for winter.

 

[fdcg27]

I like the grill better than the typical VW face and the Skoda badge is really neat.
Good luck with her.
Will you UOA the 506.01 oil?
You are right, and the engine is not yet fully run in, but I'd be interested in seeing what a stronger oil might do to reduce wear metals.

 

[zak14]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Will you UOA the 506.01 oil?
You are right, and the engine is not yet fully run in, but I'd be interested in seeing what a stronger oil might do to reduce wear metals.

I did VOA/UOAs of all the oils I used, so probably I will do it in the future as well.

 

[skyship]

Most of the folks in Germany that have newish cars with German engines use Liqui Moly or Castrol engine oil. I regard the other oil brands (Apart from some expensive US imports) as rather lacking in the quality of their add packs. The TBN figures in the UOA seem a bit low for example, so it would be interesting to see what the results are with a better quality oil and a longer OCI.
My own opinion is that if you don't want to pay the major brand prices, then you might as well save more money and use a supermarket oil when it is on special offer.

 

[zak14]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Most of the folks in Germany that have newish cars with German engines use Liqui Moly or Castrol engine oil. I regard the other oil brands (Apart from some expensive US imports) as rather lacking in the quality of their add packs.

Many of Octavia Owners Club of Poland members consider Castrol as low-end 'supermarket' product, so we are looking for higher quality alternatives.

Originally Posted By: skyship

The TBN figures in the UOA seem a bit low for example, so it would be interesting to see what the results are with a better quality oil and a longer OCI.

I will test more 504/507 oils in the same engine, but I would not expect better results with Castrol.

Originally Posted By: skyship

My own opinion is that if you don't want to pay the major brand prices, then you might as well save more money and use a supermarket oil when it is on special offer.

The aim of my tests is definitely not saving money.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: zak14

Many of Octavia Owners Club of Poland members consider Castrol as low-end 'supermarket' product, so we are looking for higher quality alternatives.


Hmm that's strange because it definitely isn't.

 

[Brons2]

I took a picture of some VW504/507 oil at a supermarket in Germany when I was there in December of 2010. Good deal, came in the 5 liter bottle for EUR37

I like the Skodas and see quite a lot of them when I am visiting my friends in Germany, in fact my friends have a Skoda Superb with a 2.5 V6 TDI which I guess is the Passat equivalent. IIRC the Octavia is the equivalent of the Bora/Jetta, correct?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: zak14

Many of Octavia Owners Club of Poland members consider Castrol as low-end 'supermarket' product, so we are looking for higher quality alternatives.

Hmm that's strange because it definitely isn't.


I might be from Blighty and should regards Castrol as the no 1 oil company, as it's owned by BP, but I agree with what the Germans think that Liqui Moly is no 1, Castrol no 2 and Mobil no 3, as they point out in this article:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/li_pszi8s6bzr.html

Germany is the only country in the EU where you can really use the potential performance of a modern car to its full extent when the traffic on the autobahn is light and because of that fact combined with the green orientated very long OCI's (30k to 50k km for most new German cars), they pay a lot of attention to oil quality and performance.
If I owned a Skoda in Poland I would not even use a good fully synthetic oil, because having worked there for a few months I know their road system is rather lacking and sustained high speeds are impossible. Silicon and fuel contamination from dusty roads, coal dust and time at idle would be more of a factor in Poland and no oil can prevent that type of contamination. Castrol GTX 5/30 would probably be just as good as anything more expensive for a Skoda in such an environment.
From the point of view of the UOA I am surprised how much top up oil this engine uses (2.7 quarts in 11,000 km) considering the engine is fairly new. My old Volvo 1.9D has 200K km on the clock and I do 10K oil changes and have never had to top up the oil as my consumption is about 0.5 ltr per OCI.

 

[zak14]

Originally Posted By: jayg

Hmm that's strange because it definitely isn't.


It’s just a brand. Castrol sold in Poland and German Castrol are not necessarily the same fluids. Castrol is blended all over the world and you don’t really know what you have in the bottle. Base oil quality varies depending of the refinery. And it’s not a ‘fully’ synthetic oil – it’s gr.III/III+.

Originally Posted By: skyship

If I owned a Skoda in Poland I would not even use a good fully synthetic oil, because having worked there for a few months I know their road system is rather lacking and sustained high speeds are impossible. Silicon and fuel contamination from dusty roads, coal dust and time at idle would be more of a factor in Poland and no oil can prevent that type of contamination. Castrol GTX 5/30 would probably be just as good as anything more expensive for a Skoda in such an environment.
From the point of view of the UOA I am surprised how much top up oil this engine uses (2.7 quarts in 11,000 km) considering the engine is fairly new. My old Volvo 1.9D has 200K km on the clock and I do 10K oil changes and have never had to top up the oil as my consumption is about 0.5 ltr per OCI.

We don’t have Castrol GTX 5/30 in Poland, but any dino oil because of driving conditions (traffic, contaminations, winter temperatures) would give up after half the OCI Fuchs survived.
High oil consumption is a feature of many VW PD TDI engines, especially city driven as mine. No other car I owned took that much oil. And last but not least – there are more and more motorways every year, so sustained high speeds are getting possible.

Originally Posted By: Brons2
the Octavia is the equivalent of the Bora/Jetta, correct?

Correct

 

[skyship]

I think you will find Castrol use the same formulation for GTX regardless of where it is manufactured. If they didn't it would need to have all the approvals done again.
Contamination effects fully synthetic and conventional oils in the same way, so if an engine oil is subject to fuel contamination due to traffic jams the OCI for a fully synthetic should be reduced to the same figure as the OCI for the conventional oil.
The only real advantage of using a fully synthetic oil is that you can sometimes extend the OCI if the oil is not subject to fuel, coolant or Silicon contamination. The degree to which that OCI can be extended depends on the UOA results, but it would be very unlikely to be double. In many cases a less expensive good part synthetic will allow the OCI to be extended to the same degree.
Very few folks that use expensive full synthetics extend OCI intervals far enough to take advantage of the shear resistance of modern synthetics and in the vast majority of cases where they have switched back to using a conventional oil, they have not noiticed any significant change in UOA results.
About the only types of engine that really need full synthetic oils have high performance turbos that tend to fry engine oil, some of the Porsche engines for example are very tough on oil.
The proof of the pudding is always in the eating, so I will be switching from Liqui Moly Synthoil 5/40 to a conventional 5/40 next year and will check the actual results, before I decide which oil type to use. The main reason I am using a full synthetic is because it has a lot of Calcium based detergents and I want to make sure the engine is clean due to previous use of truck oil and long OCI's, although I could have used an HM oil as they also have high detergent levels.

 

[zak14]

Originally Posted By: skyship
I think you will find Castrol use the same formulation for GTX regardless of where it is manufactured. If they didn't it would need to have all the approvals done again.
Contamination effects fully synthetic and conventional oils in the same way, so if an engine oil is subject to fuel contamination due to traffic jams the OCI for a fully synthetic should be reduced to the same figure as the OCI for the conventional oil.

Theoretically the same 4 cST basestock in practice can differ from refinery to refinery in terms of noack volatility, oxidation resistance, thermal stability, sulphur content…. Fully-formulated oil can easily meet SAE J-300 / OEM specifications constraints or hardly pass the tests. I think that’s the case of Castrol which is manufactured by subcontractors all over the world and quality differs (still within specifications constraints).
Traffic means not only fuel dilution. It also means longer time oil needs to get operational temperature. In temperature well below operational the better (synthetic) basestock, the less (prone to degradation) VIIs might be required. It is only common correlation, that the better basestock means also better add pack used to formulate the oil. I would never use conventional (gr.I/II) oil in any of my cars including the oldest ’99 Felicia with bullet-proof VW AEE engine.