Mig or Arch Welder??

[stumpguy]

Hey guys,

Im interested in getting a small welding machine to do some light to medium use on utility/landscape trailer's Ect...Does anybody have any opinions on which unit would be best for such applications?I have done some brazing but im looking to speed up the process a tad and with brazing it seems your limited to most flat areas.

I like the fact that the mig is like a a glue gun but a few of my buddies say the stick is better if i ever have any bigger projects.

What do you guys think?

 

[Loobed]

MIG is easier to learn, but you will need a gas bottle. Arc is the cheapest type of welding you can do. In welding class they say that MIG stands for "Maybe Its Good." This is because a MIG welder can put a nice bead on top of a piece of metal, but it may not penetrate deep enough to hold. My welding instructor who is also a welding inspector says they don't allow MIG welders in building construction (sky scrappers, etc..). They use either Arc or Flux Core. Arc welding is sometimes called "stick" welding because when you try to start the arc, the rod sticks to the metal part.

The proper name for Arc Welding is "Shielded Metal Arc Welding" or SMAW.

The proper name for MIG welding is "Gas Metal Arc Welding" or GMAW.


I think you should look for a community college in your area that teaches welding and take a beginners class. They will let you try the 4 major types of welding. MIG, TIG, ARC, and Oxy-Acetylene (GMAW, GTAW, SMAW, OAW)


I found a half way decent college text book. The ISBN number is 1-56637-987-3 I checked Amazon and they had used ones for under $40. It probably covers a lot more than you will ever need to know. It isn't an engineers grade of book, so it is easier to understand.

 

[Trav]

A decent MIG machine will do anything from auto body sheet metal up to whatever the machine is rated for e.g the Miller 180 is 5/16" and larger units can do 1/2" plus which is pretty thick stuff.
Even the little 120V 140 is 1/4" rated, the 120V makes it very portable which may be a big plus.

Forget stuff like junk from HF or the Italian made Lincolns at Sears and HD get something decent that will last like a Miller.
Get one that uses gas and includes a regulator.
From the sounds of what you are doing a 140-180 should be fine.

Stick welders only advantage is low cost but they don't make better welds and are more difficult to learn and make good solid welds.
Unless your real handy with a carbon arc torch you can forget auto body thin sheet metal type work with a stick welder.

 

[daman]

mig

 

[Loobed]

Also check out the Miller website. They have some good information and its free.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/

I bought a lot of stuff from a place called ARC-ZONE.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
This is because a MIG welder can put a nice bead on top of a piece of metal, but it may not penetrate deep enough to hold. My welding instructor who is also a welding inspector says they don't allow MIG welders in building construction (sky scrappers, etc..).

Thats no quite accurate. Any welding method can produce a bad weld, that's not something confined to MIG welding.
MIG is used in Ship, submarine, nuclear plants and building construction.
Most MIG welders can use flux wire without any problems.

Welding Lambeau Field

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
This is because a MIG welder can put a nice bead on top of a piece of metal, but it may not penetrate deep enough to hold. My welding instructor who is also a welding inspector says they don't allow MIG welders in building construction (sky scrappers, etc..).

Thats no quite accurate. Any welding method can produce a bad weld, that's not something confined to MIG welding.
MIG is used in Ship, submarine, nuclear plants and building construction.
Most MIG welders can use flux wire without any problems.

Welding Lambeau Field



That is flux core and not MIG, I know the appear similar, but they are not. There is also Pulse Spray which looks like MIG, but isn't.

 

[Trav]

The point is you can buy a MIG welder and use the flux core wire.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/Proper-welding-wire-selection/

Edit: Maybe Tig will see this and chime in.

 

[Rand]

you can also arc weld without shielding gases.

I usually use an old lincoln welder that was my Grandpa's its 220v.

I generally weld stuff like lawnmower decks. you do have to hammer the slag off though and brush it.

Occasionally bigger like when I made a winch mount for my truck.

 

[tig1]

Many mis conceptions about welding in general. As for the type of welding the OP is looking to do(trls, lightwork). The Miller 140 AC machine(with Auto Set) would be ideal for you. Use the solid core wire(.023 or .030) with Argon-CO2 gas shield. The gas shield will cost more(get a 20# tank)but well worth the cost. Also you can use flux cored gasless wire, but the welds are rougher.

As for the quality of Mig welding. It's second to none these days as for strength, realibilty, and is typically 3-4 times faster than stick. Don't get me wrong, I have used thousands of stick rods in my career of all types including cast iron and the SS varieties as well as copper nickel and monel. I have a Miller 180 with the spool gun attachment and a Miller 180 combination tig and stick welder. Very nice machines. If you need further advise PM me and we can talk.

 

[JimPghPA]

Remember if you ever have to join metals with a thick joint, V cut or V grind the pieces, and then fill in the V. That way you get a joint that is welded all the way through, instead of something with just a weld over a crack of un-joined metal.

Once I welded a new frame section on a vehicle. It was both sides in the back by where the gas tank normally would be under the trunk. The new frame was necessary because the old frame was so rusted it would not hold the bumper mounts and the bumper. I told the friend at the garage who owned the car that I would do it if he first ground all the joints to a V all the way at each joint so the welds would be all the way through. He sold that car, and it was totaled by being hit from behind. He told me that all of my welds held.

V cut for all thick joints is the way to do it right.

 

[Chris142]

Mig is super easy to learn. Even I can do it. I've had no luck with ARC welding or Torch welding though.

 

[Shannow]

20+ years in the power industry, on steam piping (2600psi, 1000F), structural, turbine blades, and coveranding, and wire feed just isn't used, as a good "looking" weld can pass non-destructive testing, and be useless and dangerous.

Wire feed is used in hard facing, and when permitted on boiler plate ductwork. It's also used when fabricating components in the shop, robotically, where every parameter is properly controlled.

To compare shop, computer controlled wire feed etc. on fabrication work to field welding wire feed is disingenuous, as they are miles apart.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11202

 

[eljefino]

Stick welding is kinda fun in a masochistic sort of way. I don't do it every day or even every month so I haven't gotten "good" at it but the welds seem to hold up, ugly as they look.

"They" say if you practice with stick you'll be great at MIG. Some day when I have $700 I might get a setup.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
20+ years in the power industry, on steam piping (2600psi, 1000F), structural, turbine blades, and coveranding, and wire feed just isn't used, as a good "looking" weld can pass non-destructive testing, and be useless and dangerous.

Wire feed is used in hard facing, and when permitted on boiler plate ductwork. It's also used when fabricating components in the shop, robotically, where every parameter is properly controlled.

To compare shop, computer controlled wire feed etc. on fabrication work to field welding wire feed is disingenuous, as they are miles apart.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=11202


Yes there certainly is large role for stick welding. Myself I have used the mig process in ship building, welding hull plates but also have used stick 11018 on HY 80 hull plate on Navy destryers and sub work as well. Most welding with manufacturing of heavy equipment is the mig process along with most fuel storage tanks, and almost everything else that's welded for that matter.

As for the OP, mig will be ideal for him.

 

[Trav]

Mig used in nuclear plant repair.
Quote:
Underwater welding repair in nuclear power stations is usually carried out by diving welders, with features of great dangers and uncertainty of joint quality. An innovative automated underwater local dry MIG welding system is developed, and may be applied to take the place of underwater welders in nuclear power plants repair.

Link

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Mig used in nuclear plant repair.
Quote:
Underwater welding repair in nuclear power stations is usually carried out by diving welders, with features of great dangers and uncertainty of joint quality. An innovative automated underwater local dry MIG welding system is developed, and may be applied to take the place of underwater welders in nuclear power plants repair.

Link



The disclaimer is "may be."

I think this might be the new pulse spray wire feed welder.

 

[Trav]

English is my second language. I don't know if they are using it this context as a disclaimer.

I bought some paint recently and it said..
May be applied with brush, roller or airless sprayer. Is that a disclaimer?

Anyone else shed some light on this?

 

[tom slick]

The OP wants to put together some light duty trailers and you guys can't help but argue "penetration", "structural", "ship building", "power industry", "piping" etc.

Don't buy a bargain welder, of any process, and it will weld light duty trailers together just fine once you learn the proper procedure. There are upsides and down sides to all of the processes, but any of them will suit your application.

If your welds look like this they will fail:

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
The OP wants to put together some light duty trailers and you guys can't help but argue "penetration", "structural", "ship building", "power industry", "piping" etc.


OK...run a really nice bead of silastic, and paint it in zinc rich primer. It will look really nice.