Platinums vs Iridium spark plugs, I dont get it
- Thread starter Carnoobie
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
DBMaster said:
One more thing...
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
One more thing...
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
When I had my 2003 Saturn ION, it left the factory with double platinum plugs. Later on when the car needed new plugs, ACDelco Iridium plugs were the only ones that were made to fit.
I wonder how such a special ignition system could use a very different spark plug.
One more thing...
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
When I had my 2003 Saturn ION, it left the factory with double platinum plugs. Later on when the car needed new plugs, ACDelco Iridium plugs were the only ones that were made to fit.
I wonder how such a special ignition system could use a very different spark plug.
That quote (about Denso) is not mine, folks. The Mazda Skyactiv engine uses direct injection and variable valve timing. There is a "crater" in the center of the piston that somehow prevents knocking since the engine is designed to run on 87 octane gas. Plugs, even the ones I have to buy, are not so expensive that I would run them longer than spec.
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
My engine, spec'd for premium, will run fine on regular 87 also. It only needs premium when the load is high and the temp is hot. It will not make audible knock of any kind at all due to knock sensors which are present on almost any car these days.
The Skyactiv design may use a multi strike system which is hard on plugs. Carmakers do not share ALL their little secrets with us!
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
My engine, spec'd for premium, will run fine on regular 87 also. It only needs premium when the load is high and the temp is hot. It will not make audible knock of any kind at all due to knock sensors which are present on almost any car these days.
The Skyactiv design may use a multi strike system which is hard on plugs. Carmakers do not share ALL their little secrets with us!
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
BING BING BING BING! I agree. In fact, the stupid name "Skyactiv" is the American marketing arm's loose translation of the Japanese concept which is less nonsensical. Regardless, it was a step forward for this little car. This generation of 3 was always considered fun to drive, but its fuel economy lagged behind competing vehicles.
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
BING BING BING BING! I agree. In fact, the stupid name "Skyactiv" is the American marketing arm's loose translation of the Japanese concept which is less nonsensical. Regardless, it was a step forward for this little car. This generation of 3 was always considered fun to drive, but its fuel economy lagged behind competing vehicles.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
One more thing...
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
When I had my 2003 Saturn ION, it left the factory with double platinum plugs. Later on when the car needed new plugs, ACDelco Iridium plugs were the only ones that were made to fit.
I wonder how such a special ignition system could use a very different spark plug.
Delphi makes all sorts of stuff. You did not have the modern self monitoring coil system on that car.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
One more thing...
If you have a Delphi system, use the factory plugs only.
This is the coil sensing system that measures voltage patterns for computer feed back.
Super sophisticated and seems to work.
When I had my 2003 Saturn ION, it left the factory with double platinum plugs. Later on when the car needed new plugs, ACDelco Iridium plugs were the only ones that were made to fit.
I wonder how such a special ignition system could use a very different spark plug.
Delphi makes all sorts of stuff. You did not have the modern self monitoring coil system on that car.
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
If the plugs last 100K+ miles I wonder why Mazda specifies a replacement interval of 75K for my car. It's not like 12:1 is outrageous compression.
Habit. Mazda specifies the same replacement interval for the 3.0 liter V6 engine in the Mazda6, and that has a much lower compression ratio than your SkyActiv Mazda.
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which will give slightly better power and slightly better fuel economy, but which probably would need to be replaced -- due to wear on the center electrode -- in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer. Is the Denso's extra performance worth getting only one-quarter the service life of the NGK?
Eye-opener about the effect of a 0.4 mm center electrode
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Saab was working on an ignition system that used the top of the piston as a "side electrode". The spark would jump an air gap between the center electrode and the piston.
Don't know the effect of grounding 30,000 volts through the wrist pin and crank bearing. Don't know what will happen if carbon builds up on the top of the piston. Probably just two of the reasons the project was abandoned.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
If the plugs last 100K+ miles I wonder why Mazda specifies a replacement interval of 75K for my car. It's not like 12:1 is outrageous compression.
Habit. Mazda specifies the same replacement interval for the 3.0 liter V6 engine in the Mazda6, and that has a much lower compression ratio than your SkyActiv Mazda.
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which will give slightly better power and slightly better fuel economy, but which probably would need to be replaced -- due to wear on the center electrode -- in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer. Is the Denso's extra performance worth getting only one-quarter the service life of the NGK?
Eye-opener about the effect of a 0.4 mm center electrode
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Saab was working on an ignition system that used the top of the piston as a "side electrode". The spark would jump an air gap between the center electrode and the piston.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
THIS is why I went with the NGK Laser Iridiums vs. the Densos (besides not liking their parent/owning company very much), or even the less costly, but much shorter-lived, NGK Iridium IXes, or copper V-powers.
So tell us, why don't you like Denso?
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
Denso products are at least as good as comparable NGK if not better.
THIS is why I went with the NGK Laser Iridiums vs. the Densos (besides not liking their parent/owning company very much), or even the less costly, but much shorter-lived, NGK Iridium IXes, or copper V-powers.
So tell us, why don't you like Denso?
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
Denso products are at least as good as comparable NGK if not better.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
I think you may be mistaken. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso
Quote:
DENSO is a member of the Toyota Group of companies.
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
I think you may be mistaken. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso
Quote:
DENSO is a member of the Toyota Group of companies.
Toyota only has a 22.5% interest in Denso. They do have influence but they don't "own" Denso.
The price fixing charges are news to me, I follow the industry pretty closely and never heard about this. I wonder why? Weird.
The price fixing charges are news to me, I follow the industry pretty closely and never heard about this. I wonder why? Weird.
Last edited:
You got me curious so I checked up on Toyota Group. It's right here, from the horses mouth:
http://www.toyota-global.com/company/profile/toyota_group/
It is interesting intertwining of the 2 companies.
Not much on price fixing other than this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/26/denso-antitrust-idUSL2E8FQBVP20120426?type=companyNews
http://www.toyota-global.com/company/profile/toyota_group/
It is interesting intertwining of the 2 companies.
Not much on price fixing other than this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/26/denso-antitrust-idUSL2E8FQBVP20120426?type=companyNews
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
BING BING BING BING! I agree. In fact, the stupid name "Skyactiv" is the American marketing arm's loose translation of the Japanese concept which is less nonsensical. Regardless, it was a step forward for this little car. This generation of 3 was always considered fun to drive, but its fuel economy lagged behind competing vehicles.
Ah yes, but the driving experience is worth a bit of fuel to some of us! Mazda has got some chassis voodoo that works well, and has parlayed that into market share.
And skyactiv is an entire suite of improvement, a "leave no stone unturned" approach. IMO this is what the japanese automakers do best, if they decide to do anything.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Using the top of the piston design to manage the flame propagation in the cylinder is not new, nor exclusive to Mazda. There really is nothing 'new' about anything in the new Mazda engines, just a series of very incremental refinements that together give a small improvement in economy and performance.
Sorry but it's mostly marketing.
BING BING BING BING! I agree. In fact, the stupid name "Skyactiv" is the American marketing arm's loose translation of the Japanese concept which is less nonsensical. Regardless, it was a step forward for this little car. This generation of 3 was always considered fun to drive, but its fuel economy lagged behind competing vehicles.
Ah yes, but the driving experience is worth a bit of fuel to some of us! Mazda has got some chassis voodoo that works well, and has parlayed that into market share.
And skyactiv is an entire suite of improvement, a "leave no stone unturned" approach. IMO this is what the japanese automakers do best, if they decide to do anything.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
THIS is why I went with the NGK Laser Iridiums vs. the Densos (besides not liking their parent/owning company very much), or even the less costly, but much shorter-lived, NGK Iridium IXes, or copper V-powers.
So tell us, why don't you like Denso?
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
Denso products are at least as good as comparable NGK if not better.
You wanna' get complicated?
JECS is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hitachi, but started as a collaboration between Nissan and Bosch. Who made the electrical control components for JECS in the early Bosch/Nissan days? Denso.
Seems everybody's got a piece or had a piece of somebody these days!
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
THIS is why I went with the NGK Laser Iridiums vs. the Densos (besides not liking their parent/owning company very much), or even the less costly, but much shorter-lived, NGK Iridium IXes, or copper V-powers.
So tell us, why don't you like Denso?
BTW Denso is not owned by any other company. Actually they are the parent company and co owner of several tier two OEM suppliers.
Denso products are at least as good as comparable NGK if not better.
You wanna' get complicated?
JECS is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hitachi, but started as a collaboration between Nissan and Bosch. Who made the electrical control components for JECS in the early Bosch/Nissan days? Denso.
Seems everybody's got a piece or had a piece of somebody these days!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ah yes, but the driving experience is worth a bit of fuel to some of us! Mazda has got some chassis voodoo that works well, and has parlayed that into market share.
And skyactiv is an entire suite of improvement, a "leave no stone unturned" approach. IMO this is what the japanese automakers do best, if they decide to do anything.
Yes. It was my understanding that the term roughly translated into something like "The sky's the limit." Mazdaspeed 3 aside, the Skyactiv 2.0 liter is a better driving experience than the old 2.0 liter AND provides competitive fuel economy. The body/chassis has been given a bit of extra stiffening here and there as well since, unlike the CX5, the 3 did not get the full Skyactiv treatment.
Ah yes, but the driving experience is worth a bit of fuel to some of us! Mazda has got some chassis voodoo that works well, and has parlayed that into market share.
And skyactiv is an entire suite of improvement, a "leave no stone unturned" approach. IMO this is what the japanese automakers do best, if they decide to do anything.
Yes. It was my understanding that the term roughly translated into something like "The sky's the limit." Mazdaspeed 3 aside, the Skyactiv 2.0 liter is a better driving experience than the old 2.0 liter AND provides competitive fuel economy. The body/chassis has been given a bit of extra stiffening here and there as well since, unlike the CX5, the 3 did not get the full Skyactiv treatment.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which . . . probably would need to be replaced . . . in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer.
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Since I posted that statement that you quoted above about two choices (among many options for replacements for the OEM Motorcrafts), I have become acquainted with another iridium plug option, the Bosch Iridium OE 9657. A lot of bad stuff (quite possibly justified) has been written about Bosch spark plugs, and a rather bizarre meme has been spun out that Bosch plugs should be used only in European cars, NGKs and Densos should be used in Asian cars, and Champions, Autolites, or Motorcrafts in American cars.
I'm going to call b.s. on the meme. Our Mazda was assembled in Michigan by UAW labor, and its engine is a Ford Duratec that has never crossed an ocean, but the logo on the hood is the logo of an Asian brand. I would have no compunction putting an NGK plug from Asia, a Bosch plug from Europe, or a Motorcraft plug from America in it.
As for others' bad experiences with Bosch spark plugs, I take that history more seriously; but analytical review indicates that the bad experiences mostly relate to the subset of Bosch plugs that are of multi-contact design. Bosch seems to have fallen in love with multi-contact designs a few years back, and there are a lot of bad stories about the Platinum +2 and Platinum +4 plugs in particular. I would have some trepidation about adopting Bosch's latest multi-contact plug, the Iridium Fusion. But the Bosch Iridium OE plug is not a multi-contact design, and looks very much like a copy of the NGK Laser Iridium plug, except that the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the NGK is platinum, whereas the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the Bosch is an iridium-platinum alloy. And the retail price of each Bosch Iridium OE plug generally is a couple of dollars lower than the price of an NGK Laser Iridium plug.
The Bosch Iridium OE is a relative newcomer to the market compared to the NGK Laser Iridium, which has been around for a few years, and I would like to see more user reviews and tests of the Bosch than exist now, but I take comfort in this straightforward statement from NGK's own website:
Quote:
A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which . . . probably would need to be replaced . . . in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer.
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Since I posted that statement that you quoted above about two choices (among many options for replacements for the OEM Motorcrafts), I have become acquainted with another iridium plug option, the Bosch Iridium OE 9657. A lot of bad stuff (quite possibly justified) has been written about Bosch spark plugs, and a rather bizarre meme has been spun out that Bosch plugs should be used only in European cars, NGKs and Densos should be used in Asian cars, and Champions, Autolites, or Motorcrafts in American cars.
I'm going to call b.s. on the meme. Our Mazda was assembled in Michigan by UAW labor, and its engine is a Ford Duratec that has never crossed an ocean, but the logo on the hood is the logo of an Asian brand. I would have no compunction putting an NGK plug from Asia, a Bosch plug from Europe, or a Motorcraft plug from America in it.
As for others' bad experiences with Bosch spark plugs, I take that history more seriously; but analytical review indicates that the bad experiences mostly relate to the subset of Bosch plugs that are of multi-contact design. Bosch seems to have fallen in love with multi-contact designs a few years back, and there are a lot of bad stories about the Platinum +2 and Platinum +4 plugs in particular. I would have some trepidation about adopting Bosch's latest multi-contact plug, the Iridium Fusion. But the Bosch Iridium OE plug is not a multi-contact design, and looks very much like a copy of the NGK Laser Iridium plug, except that the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the NGK is platinum, whereas the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the Bosch is an iridium-platinum alloy. And the retail price of each Bosch Iridium OE plug generally is a couple of dollars lower than the price of an NGK Laser Iridium plug.
The Bosch Iridium OE is a relative newcomer to the market compared to the NGK Laser Iridium, which has been around for a few years, and I would like to see more user reviews and tests of the Bosch than exist now, but I take comfort in this straightforward statement from NGK's own website:
Quote:
A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
If the spark plug is easy enough to get to, use a double platinum. If it's a [censored] to get to, use iridium. If the engine requires some sort of oddball spark plug, use that instead.
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which . . . probably would need to be replaced . . . in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer.
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Since I posted that statement that you quoted above about two choices (among many options for replacements for the OEM Motorcrafts), I have become acquainted with another iridium plug option, the Bosch Iridium OE 9657. A lot of bad stuff (quite possibly justified) has been written about Bosch spark plugs, and a rather bizarre meme has been spun out that Bosch plugs should be used only in European cars, NGKs and Densos should be used in Asian cars, and Champions, Autolites, or Motorcrafts in American cars.
I'm going to call b.s. on the meme. Our Mazda was assembled in Michigan by UAW labor, and its engine is a Ford Duratec that has never crossed an ocean, but the logo on the hood is the logo of an Asian brand. I would have no compunction putting an NGK plug from Asia, a Bosch plug from Europe, or a Motorcraft plug from America in it.
As for others' bad experiences with Bosch spark plugs, I take that history more seriously; but analytical review indicates that the bad experiences mostly relate to the subset of Bosch plugs that are of multi-contact design. Bosch seems to have fallen in love with multi-contact designs a few years back, and there are a lot of bad stories about the Platinum +2 and Platinum +4 plugs in particular. I would have some trepidation about adopting Bosch's latest multi-contact plug, the Iridium Fusion. But the Bosch Iridium OE plug is not a multi-contact design, and looks very much like a copy of the NGK Laser Iridium plug, except that the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the NGK is platinum, whereas the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the Bosch is an iridium-platinum alloy. And the retail price of each Bosch Iridium OE plug generally is a couple of dollars lower than the price of an NGK Laser Iridium plug.
The Bosch Iridium OE is a relative newcomer to the market compared to the NGK Laser Iridium, which has been around for a few years, and I would like to see more user reviews and tests of the Bosch than exist now, but I take comfort in this straightforward statement from NGK's own website:
Quote:
A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
I didn't put NGKs in my Mazda because it's Japanese. I put NGKs in my Mazda because I like NGK. I put NGKs in my Chrysler too. Put them in my Normal, Illinois made Mitsubishi and my old '96 Mustang too.
I did read somewhere that the MZI variant of the Ford Duratec was assembled in Hiroshima. Like most intraweb "facts" I take that with a grain of salt. I do know that the first variants of the Ford 3.7 Cyclone V6 were made in Hiroshima.
The only time I had problems with a fancy plug is AC Rapidfires. The AC sales rep came by the shop, gave us some swag (mostly pens and stuff.)and a free set of Rapidfires so we would be encouraged to push his line of wares. My 1.3l Suzuki Swift started and idled well but for some reason ran like there was a rag stuck in the airbox. Just no power. (not like the SOHC G13 had any power to begin with)
I cannot understand why. It was obviously allowing a spark to jump the gap and igniting the fuel air mixture but it could not be driven at any reasonable speed. Regular set of copper core NGKs went back in and it was fine.
It ran fine on Splitfires. I got a free watch from them.
I wonder if sales reps still visit retail shops with Swag? I liked my Castrol "Members Only" style jacket
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: GC4lunch
The OEM plug in the Mazda6 V6's Ford Duratec engine is a double platinum fine wire, and the owner's manual says to replace it at 75,000 miles with a Motorcraft AGSF 22FCSM, a part number no longer recognized in the Motorcraft catalogue. We have the original plugs in ours at 85,000 miles, and plan to replace the plugs at our next oil/filter change at about 90,000 miles. Our choices are the NGK ITR5F13 (NGK 6044), an iridium/platinum plug with a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode, and if we install those, they should last until our car hits 200,000 miles or until I am pushing up daisies, whichever comes first; or we can install the Denso IT16 (Denso 5325) with a 0.4 mm iridium center electrode, which . . . probably would need to be replaced . . . in the 110,000 mile range on our car's odometer.
There was no discernible wear on the gap of my 6's Motorcraft plugs at 60,000.
No difference when I switched to single platinum NGK G-power.
No measurable gap erosion with 30,000 on the G-powers. I'm going to leave them in for 60,000 this time.
Since I posted that statement that you quoted above about two choices (among many options for replacements for the OEM Motorcrafts), I have become acquainted with another iridium plug option, the Bosch Iridium OE 9657. A lot of bad stuff (quite possibly justified) has been written about Bosch spark plugs, and a rather bizarre meme has been spun out that Bosch plugs should be used only in European cars, NGKs and Densos should be used in Asian cars, and Champions, Autolites, or Motorcrafts in American cars.
I'm going to call b.s. on the meme. Our Mazda was assembled in Michigan by UAW labor, and its engine is a Ford Duratec that has never crossed an ocean, but the logo on the hood is the logo of an Asian brand. I would have no compunction putting an NGK plug from Asia, a Bosch plug from Europe, or a Motorcraft plug from America in it.
As for others' bad experiences with Bosch spark plugs, I take that history more seriously; but analytical review indicates that the bad experiences mostly relate to the subset of Bosch plugs that are of multi-contact design. Bosch seems to have fallen in love with multi-contact designs a few years back, and there are a lot of bad stories about the Platinum +2 and Platinum +4 plugs in particular. I would have some trepidation about adopting Bosch's latest multi-contact plug, the Iridium Fusion. But the Bosch Iridium OE plug is not a multi-contact design, and looks very much like a copy of the NGK Laser Iridium plug, except that the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the NGK is platinum, whereas the noble metal fused to the ground electrode of the Bosch is an iridium-platinum alloy. And the retail price of each Bosch Iridium OE plug generally is a couple of dollars lower than the price of an NGK Laser Iridium plug.
The Bosch Iridium OE is a relative newcomer to the market compared to the NGK Laser Iridium, which has been around for a few years, and I would like to see more user reviews and tests of the Bosch than exist now, but I take comfort in this straightforward statement from NGK's own website:
Quote:
A common misconception is that changing spark plugs will result in a large power increase. In most cases, removing even seriously worn out spark plugs will only result in very modest power gains, typically about 1-2% of total engine output. This could be even less for computer-controlled vehicles, primarily because most newer vehicles have more powerful ignition systems and the vehicle's computer can make adjustments so that vehicle operation seems smoother and more seamless.
Many people think that simply supplying more spark to the firing tip can and will combust more fuel. What they don't understand is that most newer cars' engines are so efficient that they are already burning all of the available fuel. Simply adding more spark voltage can't burn more fuel because there is no more fuel to burn.
When a stock or near-stock engine is given a fresh set of spark plugs, peak efficiency is restored. The power gains that come from this restored state of tune are usually minimal. Any company that tells you that their spark plug will provide significant gains in power in a stock or near-stock engine is making blanket statements that may not be supportable.
I didn't put NGKs in my Mazda because it's Japanese. I put NGKs in my Mazda because I like NGK. I put NGKs in my Chrysler too. Put them in my Normal, Illinois made Mitsubishi and my old '96 Mustang too.
I did read somewhere that the MZI variant of the Ford Duratec was assembled in Hiroshima. Like most intraweb "facts" I take that with a grain of salt. I do know that the first variants of the Ford 3.7 Cyclone V6 were made in Hiroshima.
The only time I had problems with a fancy plug is AC Rapidfires. The AC sales rep came by the shop, gave us some swag (mostly pens and stuff.)and a free set of Rapidfires so we would be encouraged to push his line of wares. My 1.3l Suzuki Swift started and idled well but for some reason ran like there was a rag stuck in the airbox. Just no power. (not like the SOHC G13 had any power to begin with)
I cannot understand why. It was obviously allowing a spark to jump the gap and igniting the fuel air mixture but it could not be driven at any reasonable speed. Regular set of copper core NGKs went back in and it was fine.
It ran fine on Splitfires. I got a free watch from them.
I wonder if sales reps still visit retail shops with Swag? I liked my Castrol "Members Only" style jacket
- Status
Similar threads
