LS1 Sludge

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I don't have any experience with Kreen. But I have used ARX on my 2000 Tundra V-8 that had mild deposits, but no heavy sludging. At 138K miles in 2007 I had the bank 1 cover off and saw reddish brown slime and varnish covering everything. I did two ARX treatments and at 195K miles last fall here is what bank 2 looked like:

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/album/38264-tundra-bank-2-195k/

I don't have pictures from my 138K view, but these pictures show some remnants of what I was dealing with. It is much better now, but I decided to give it another ARX treatment this summer. In fact, I just changed out the clean phase oil yesterday and started the rinse phase. While I was under the truck I noticed a crank seal seep had dried up as well.

I think my problem was PCV maintenance, or lack thereof. Oil changes were 3-5K since new. It has 200,400 miles now and turned 13 years old today. It still runs great!

I like ARX for seal leaks and deposits. It's slow, but safe.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
 
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With that many miles on the original LS engine, I would just replace it with an LS2-3 engine and enjoy the improved performance. Machine shop bills will add up quickly on the old LS1 and until you find your source of coolant leak, the problem will return it get worse.
 
He could even go to an LS3 with that engine's reluctor wheel, harness ends, and a tune.

This is what I plan on doing if my LS1 ever buys the farm, but I would get a Mast Motorsports modded crate LS3, not just the stocker.
smile.gif
 
If you put it back together and your still burning coolant, I'd just change the oil very often and drive it. Oil's pretty cheap, buy whatever 5w30 is on sale and dump it every 3k.
 
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Originally Posted By: 2004Corvette
My oil pressure reads just below 30 when warmed up - higher of course when cold. I too wondered about the difference in color from the lighter brown in the images. Mine was definitely very dark brown, or even black. I cleaned the sludge - came away after scooping out the bulk, then with soaking in carb cleaner, generous amounts of brake parts cleaner, and MEK. It was no fun, but the oil pan cover looks like a new casting now.

I am not sure, of course, whether the solids represent components of the antifreeze(I favor this) or the result of breakdown of components in the oil. Thgere has been no gross overheating, but of course there could be some localized hot spots with all that gunk floating around.

I, too wish I had caught some of the oil in a clean container for analysis, in retrospect.

Still wondering whether to go with auto-rx vs kreen, if there are any opinions out there.

Welcome to BITOG! We have very different cars, so I only comment because I've experienced oil in my Dexcool in the Volvo before...turned it like chocolate milk. Horrifying to say the least upon discovery. At fault was the radiator/oil cooler/trans cooler all-in-one radiator-combo. So I replaced the radiator, then flushed the oil out of the coolant system with SHOUT! (which my indy recommended), then changed the oil (though there were no signs of coolant in the oil...just oil in the coolant).

If you have coolant in your oil, making it foamy, that's bad. I've never used auto-rx or kreen, but I have used BG109 engine flush. BUT BG says not to use it in sludged engines. Evidently it dissolves sludge quickly, but may clog up the oil pick-up, oil pump, oil filter, etc. I'll defer to those more experienced in dealing with sludge.

Good luck with it and keep us informed.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
He could even go to an LS3 with that engine's reluctor wheel, harness ends, and a tune.

This is what I plan on doing if my LS1 ever buys the farm, but I would get a Mast Motorsports modded crate LS3, not just the stocker.
smile.gif



So agreed.

An inexpensive upgrade if you decide to do it right.
 
Since you are going to be doing numerous oil changes in the near future,you may wish to do a quick search for a list of GM 4718M LS1 approved lubes . Personally,I would use whatever 4718M I could get the best deal on since you wiIl be doing frequent flushes. If cost is no big deal,I would prefer Pennzoil Ultra which claims to be a superior cleaning oil. Factory fill in Ferraris and $28 for a 5 qt. jug at Wally World and a $10 rebate from SOPUS=$18 -$3 a quart. Penn. Platinum is about $1 a qt. less after rebate. ARX used to be the board darling but I think that Kreen is the current favorite. I would also recommend that you use the garden variety AC Delco low restriction filters (or equivalent) at each change to prevent clogging/bypass,and as always,no cheap Frams! Good Luck!
 
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I love how we spend other peoples money so freely "just drop a $13,000.00 (or so - depends on exactly which MAST LS3 you are talking about) engine in it and be done with it"...
crazy.gif
-isn't that about half what the car would be worth?
whistle.gif


I am a little confused:

  • a half gallon per 3000 miles sounds like a significant amount of coolant to me, enough that the leak should be detectable and it should not hold pressure overnight...
  • the pictures appear to all be of the lower oil pan? is this sludge apparent throughout the engine?
  • This sludge does not have the appearance of coolant that I'm familiar with - perhaps DEX-COOL reacts differently, but I did work at Cadillac during the HT4100 days, so I know what coolant looks like in the oil...
    sick.gif


I guess what I am getting at is - are we sure the coolant is going into the motor and the sludge and coolant are related. I'm not saying they aren't - I'm just asking questions.

I have no recommendations for cleaners, but I will say that we used GM "Coolant Tabs" in the aforementioned HT4100 days and they did work, they also did not change to coolant dirty brown permanently. Perhaps there is still something that could be used.

I also see no problems with your planned reassembly and course of action. It is probably what I would do in your situation. Did you get an opportunity to examine the removed gaskets for signs of coolant migration?
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I love how we spend other peoples money so freely "just drop a $13,000.00 (or so - depends on exactly which MAST LS3 you are talking about) engine in it and be done with it"...
crazy.gif
-isn't that about half what the car would be worth?


First off, I did NOT tell him to "just drop a $13K engine" into his C5.
I DID NOT "spend his money". I have NO idea how much he does, or does not have to spend on ANYTHING!
The implication was that a stock LS3 was another crate motor option IF (and ONLY if) his current LS1 was deemed hopeless, and he was going the new crate motor route anyway.
wink.gif


Next, I only mentioned the Mast LS3 as something that I might do, if I found myself in his situation, YES, despite it costing more than TWICE what my car is worth!
(It's a HOBBY, and a STRONG interest, NOT everything in life is meant to be "practical", "frugal", and "pragmatic" ALL of the time.
31.gif
Maybe I think that all of the coin everyone "wastes" on; booze, cancer sticks, drugs, gambling, firearms, etc. is "unpractical", "wasteful", and "spendthrifty". )


Third, as you've stated NOT ALL of the Mast LS3 crates cost that much, at least MOST of the ones without a Maggie sitting on top do not.
 
Just to put a fine point on it, Pennzoil Ultra is just the only American-made oil endorsed by Ferrari. Even if the Euro 5W40 is not available here,other weights apparently may be substituted. In any case Ultra should do quite well in an LS1 as far as cleaning efficacy,if their propaganda is to be believed.
 
OK guys - taking a week off work, and starting reassembly. gonna take it slow, and hope for the best. i can see turning the old girl into a track car, with rebuilt suspension and a good crate engine. might need to replace tranx too, if that is what happens. And then give the car to my son, who loves to go fast!

i'll use pennzoil ultra as suggested, and see what develops, assuming the thing starts when i turn the key. i'll probably flush out the coolant a few times, and frequent oil changes. and we shall see. not yet decided on additives, but kreen seems a good idea. i can see lots of trash on the timing chain, but i really don't want to go there. looks like my road bike after a long ride in sandy conditions...

i can't say enough how excellent i think this forum has been. i have noodled around on it a lot the past week. all of you fellas seem to try to give good advice, so i'll just keep posting when something develops with this rather major project.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: 2004Corvette
Reassemble, fill with a good detergent oil such as rotella t, start and run up to normal driving for 20-30 minutes, drain the oil...

Not sure what you're expecting this to do for you...?


Really! A perfect waste of good oil IMO, unless it would be used to wash an engine flush out, no mention of that though. Even then I'd opt for something really cheap for a 20-30 minute run to rinse out a flush.


I agree- relatively cheap and thin oil for that first flush since you're not going to run the engine hard or up to full temp. You really don't want the filter going into bypass during that first run, so I'd use a low-restriction "depth media" type filter along with the thin oil- unfortunately those are generally expensive, with one glaring exception: a Fram Ultra. So maybe 5w20 and a Fram Ultra for the first short flush, then a very good oil and filter (again a Fram Ultra is really a superb filter and a HUGE bang for the buck) for the first long interval change.

For that first "flushing" run, I'd also keep the revs low until the oil comes up to temp- but then I'd bring them up to a moderate level and vary the revs a bit- say between 2500 and 3500 RPM once the engine is warm- to make sure you spray oil everywhere possible to flush out any sludge that you've loosened by poking around.

Once all the loose stuff is gone (in the filter, hopefully), I'd go to a good high-detergency oil in the proper grade. No need for Rotella although its fine- you could use PU or M1 just fine.

You can try Kreen or whatever if you want, but I am personally not a fan of any kind of flush or additive. Just good oil working slowly.
 
2004 did your machinist pressure check the heads? That should have discovered any leaks in them. also be sure to use new head
bolts on reassembly.
RM
 
Update

AFAIK no pressure test done - just resurfacing and truing (he said some warp was present) - and a very thorough cleaning, with replacement of springs and stem seals.

Have reassembled the engine. Started in 3 seconds of cranking, and I ran the engine for 20 minutes to bring it to temp, with generic (Advance AP)5W-30 oil, and a Fram Ultra filter. Revved it a few times, then shut down and drained immediately (lots of suspended particulates in dark brown oil), then added P Ultra, and a high capacity Bosch filter.

Drove normally for 1000 miles, including short runs to work and back, around town, and one 300 miles round trip at normal (79 mph) speed. Added one can of Gunk engine flush, and ran (not drove) for 5 minutes at temperature, drained. Oil was dark, but not black, and no particles settled out in clear class container of captured drained oil.

Mobile 1 5W30 and another Bosch high capacity filter installed.

Now have about 1500 miles since rebuild, and it looks like coolant level is holding.

Plan is to drive 3-5k, then change again.

cool.gif
 
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