Amsoil OE 0W20, 4,834 Miles, 2008 Tundra 5.7L V8

[DavesTundra]

Here is my very first UOA. I am checking with Blackstone on where the sodium levels could be from. The only thing I can think of is I added a bottle of Redline SI-1 within 500 miles of taking the sample. I added it to 1/4 tank of gas then ran until the refill indicator came up before adding more gas. Other than that, who knows? They did wonder if the sodium could be from previous oil. Prior to this interval of Amsoil OE, I have only had my truck serviced at Toyota so whatever dino oil (assuming 5W20) they had in bulk is what has been in this truck. I never paid extra for their synthetic and always changed at 5,000 miles.

Currently, I am running GC 0W30 and I plan to run a 2nd consecutive GC batch after this as I have it on my shelf. After that, I may try to push the Amsoil OE to 7,000 miles and do another UOA.

Code:
DAVID: No fuel was found in this sample, but we did find an unusual amount of sodium. Perhaps you just

switched to Amsoil from another oil that used sodium as an additive. That would mean this sodium is

residual additive, and in that form it's completely harmless. The other common source for sodium is coolant,

but you don't have any of the other signs here (like coolant or high wear). In fact, your wear looks great

compared averages, which are based on 6,000 miles on the oil. The TBN was fine at 2.9 since a reading of

1.0 is low. Try going up to 7,500 miles next time.


Code:
ELEMENTS IN PARTS PER MILLION MI/HR on Oil 4,834



MI/HR on Unit 42,424



Sample Date 08/23/12



ALUMINUM 2 2 3

CHROMIUM 0 0 0

IRON 4 4 10

COPPER 3 3 5

LEAD 1 1 1

TIN 2 2 1

MOLYBDENUM 64 64 151

NICKEL 0 0 0

MANGANESE 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0

TITANIUM 5 5 1

POTASSIUM 0 0 2

BORON 81 81 48

SILICON 17 17 15

SODIUM 150 150 42

CALCIUM 2063 2063 2198

MAGNESIUM 10 10 138

PHOSPHORUS 687 687 672

ZINC 781 781 802

BARIUM 0 0 0



Values

Should Be*





PROPERTIES

SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 52.5 46-59

cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.04 6.0-10.2

Flashpoint in °F 400 >385

Fuel %
Antifreeze % ? 0.0

Water % 0.0
Insolubles % 0.2
TBN 2.9 >1.0

 

[addyguy]

Looks really good. Oil should do 7k easily.

Don't worry at all about the Sodium, it's from the previous Toyota oil - it's made by XOM, and uses a sodium detergent.

 

[INDYMAC]

My Toyota dealer uses Valvoline lubricants. I think most do in the Houston area. Valvoline has lots of sodium in their formulas. I suspect that their 5W-20 does too.

Your engine has a very nice wear pattern. Any unusual noises or performance problems? The 5.7L seems to be doing well in the Tundra's so far.

Thanks for posting and welcome to BITOG.

 

[dnewton3]

Welcome to BITOG!


Wear is low enough to easily run out to 7.5k miles; probably more. You paid for the synthetic oil (and a UOA); try to run it out to get your value out of it. Any decent dino oil could do this well in 4.8k miles. You need to be extending out your OCIs to get the value from your purchase.

 

[DavesTundra]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Any unusual noises or performance problems?

It still sounds like it always has since new. I think so far so good.

 

[DavesTundra]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Welcome to BITOG!


Wear is low enough to easily run out to 7.5k miles; probably more. You paid for the synthetic oil (and a UOA); try to run it out to get your value out of it. Any decent dino oil could do this well in 4.8k miles. You need to be extending out your OCIs to get the value from your purchase.


My intentions are to extend OCIs and on good syn oil. My goal on this OCI was to pull the sample around 5k miles and evaluate. Then, I could set a target for the next OCI on this oil. Looks like shooting fr 7500 miles is a safe bet. I want to keep this truck a long time so i don't want to do any harm by something so simple as not changing the oil on time. Next time, I will go 7500 on the Amsoil OE and if the sample looks good enough, I will push it out more.

However, all this will be a while from now as I am trying to see how far I can run GC in this truck. I like the idea of using 30 grade...although, the 20 grade seems to hold up wonderfully for my driving habits and my engine.

 

[DavesTundra]

According to Blackstone, they believe the old oil was Mobil Super due to the presence of sodium and titanium.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: DavesTundra
Here is my very first UOA. I am checking with Blackstone on where the sodium levels could be from. The only thing I can think of is I added a bottle of Redline SI-1 within 500 miles of taking the sample. I added it to 1/4 tank of gas then ran until the refill indicator came up before adding more gas. Other than that, who knows?


Why would you run such a high dose? The instructions on the bottle say to run it with a full tank of gas.

 

[DavesTundra]

Ran at higher concentration because it MAY clean more in one dose vs running at lower concentration. It is safe against overdose so no worries there. Nice emoticon. And anyway, it has already been determined that the Redline is not the source of sodium in the oil...no presence of fuel ergo no presence of Redline.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: DavesTundra
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Welcome to BITOG!


Wear is low enough to easily run out to 7.5k miles; probably more. You paid for the synthetic oil (and a UOA); try to run it out to get your value out of it. Any decent dino oil could do this well in 4.8k miles. You need to be extending out your OCIs to get the value from your purchase.


My intentions are to extend OCIs and on good syn oil. My goal on this OCI was to pull the sample around 5k miles and evaluate. Then, I could set a target for the next OCI on this oil. Looks like shooting fr 7500 miles is a safe bet. I want to keep this truck a long time so i don't want to do any harm by something so simple as not changing the oil on time. Next time, I will go 7500 on the Amsoil OE and if the sample looks good enough, I will push it out more.

However, all this will be a while from now as I am trying to see how far I can run GC in this truck. I like the idea of using 30 grade...although, the 20 grade seems to hold up wonderfully for my driving habits and my engine.


If I understand your comments correctly, you've moved from Amsoil 0w-20 to GC 5w-30? If I misunderstood, then that would invalidate the following comments:


You cannot use a single UOA to decide if one lube is better or worse than another in your application. Hopping from brand/grade to brand/grade gives no ability whatsoever to determine what is "better".

If you want to know how well or poorly any lube will do, you'll have to run a long series of controlled UOAs, with minimal input changes, to get good range and trend data.

I realize you're new here, although perhaps not new to the concepts of UOAs. But to be blunt, your methodology is flawed and will not give you a solid basis for the decision you desire to make.

 

[DavesTundra]

thanks for the reply newton. You understood me right in that i did put GC in the truck!

jumping over to GC was actually a disjoint from what I had originally planned and it is in no way correlated to me trying to find out how well the Amsoil lube is doing or will be doing in the longer runs.

Initially, I planned on running Amsoil OE, sample around 5k miles. Run a new batch of Amsoil OE for longer (if the initial UOA supported the longer run) and in an effort to get the most out of the Amsoil OE.

But, I found GC on sale and decided that I would try running it, albeit a 30 grade. So now I have enough GC for two runs. Maybe after two or more UOA on GC, I may decide to stick with it.

Maybe, I will try something else...M1, Amsoil XL or SS, 20 grade, 30 grade, maybe something else.

MAYBE someday, I will go back to the Amsoil OE and run for 7,500 miles and do a UOA...finding a sweet spot on that oil for my engine and driving style (towing, short trips, non-towing, highway driving).

The goal is to see how far I can go on each oil. Ya, I know I gotta go more than 5k miles to determine that on any given oil. I plan to hopefully go 30k miles on a few batches of GC before going to try another. Who knows.

Ya, I didn't give Amsoil OE a chance yet....maybe someday I will. For now I decided to try out how well GC is doing. There is a fella on a tundra forum who is having good results with it over 10k mile intervals so I figure why not.

BUT...for now, I figure, I may as well do the UOA and share it here. FWIW!!

 

[dave123]

GC will do nothing for the engine but kill MPG .

 

[DavesTundra]

Originally Posted By: dave123
GC will do nothing for the engine but kill MPG .

That's a bold and thoughtless claim it seems...

What do you have to back this up? Experience with this engine and running a 30 weight?

I only have around 1,000 miles on the GC and so far I notice no decrease in gas mileage. I have been looking for that too because it was very very slight concern of mine. So, to say that it will kill gas mileage is pretty far from my experience and far from the truth IMO. Maybe it could slightly impact gas mileage in a negative way but you may be using kill in the wrong way. Nevertheless, I will keep monitoring to see if my gas mileage gets KILLED...haha. doubt it.

Oh, and I think any oil does more than NOTHING.

 

[donnyj08]

i understand getting a deal on the 30wt, but i don't see the logic in the thicker oil. 20wt is what is spec'd for that vehicle, and i am going to venture to say it is what is best for that vehicles engine. im not saying the 30wt is going to Kill it or fuel economy or anything like that. however, i believe that the 20wt will provide the best overall protection. toyota knows a little something about engines, and if they say 20wt is best, i would think your best bet will be to continue using a 20wt oil. just my thoughts.

 

[INDYMAC]

Toyota is pretty clear about why they recommend 0W-20 and 5W-20 oils for their engines...better fuel economy (CAFE) and easier cold start-up. They also claim it will provide adequate engine protection. But they also state that if you operate heavily loaded or at high speeds, you should use a higher viscosity engine oil.

Although I like GC, I think Edge with Titanium 5W-30 would have been a better lube to try in his Tundra if a 30wt was his consideration. But I can understand the hype along with GC being on sale. I was there once too!

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: DavesTundra
thanks for the reply newton. You understood me right in that i did put GC in the truck!

jumping over to GC was actually a disjoint from what I had originally planned and it is in no way correlated to me trying to find out how well the Amsoil lube is doing or will be doing in the longer runs.

Initially, I planned on running Amsoil OE, sample around 5k miles. Run a new batch of Amsoil OE for longer (if the initial UOA supported the longer run) and in an effort to get the most out of the Amsoil OE.

But, I found GC on sale and decided that I would try running it, albeit a 30 grade. So now I have enough GC for two runs. Maybe after two or more UOA on GC, I may decide to stick with it.

Maybe, I will try something else...M1, Amsoil XL or SS, 20 grade, 30 grade, maybe something else.

MAYBE someday, I will go back to the Amsoil OE and run for 7,500 miles and do a UOA...finding a sweet spot on that oil for my engine and driving style (towing, short trips, non-towing, highway driving).

The goal is to see how far I can go on each oil. Ya, I know I gotta go more than 5k miles to determine that on any given oil. I plan to hopefully go 30k miles on a few batches of GC before going to try another. Who knows.

Ya, I didn't give Amsoil OE a chance yet....maybe someday I will. For now I decided to try out how well GC is doing. There is a fella on a tundra forum who is having good results with it over 10k mile intervals so I figure why not.

BUT...for now, I figure, I may as well do the UOA and share it here. FWIW!!


Allow me to clarify something.

Swapping from brand/grade to brand/grade (as long as they are approved by the OEM) is not at all detrimental to the engine. No harm will come from that practice. Toyota approves conventional oil for this engine up to 7.5k miles per OCI, does it not? (I believe the OCI is 7.5k miles; please correct me if I'm incorrect). Anything equal to, or shorter than, that will be fine.

But doing so completely negates any hope of finding out which oil is "better" for a given situation. To find that information, consistent long term testing with total manipulation of inputs is needed so that variables are controlled, allowing ranges and trends to develop for comparitive purposes.

- If saving money and getting good engine protection is your goal, then choosing the least-cost qualified oil is right for you.
- If your goal is to determine if Amsoil or GC is "better" for you, you're not on the right track.
- If bouncing from brand/grade to brand/grade and wasting synthetic is "best" for you emotionally, then so be it; nothing wrong with satisfying an emotional want. Just don't try to pass it off as "better" for the truck, because it won't be proven as such.


In short, you are not wrong to do what you want; that is your right. But you're wrong if you think you'll have any basis for making a good decision; the lack of good data will not support such a conclusion.

 

[DavesTundra]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
i understand getting a deal on the 30wt, but i don't see the logic in the thicker oil. 20wt is what is spec'd for that vehicle, and i am going to venture to say it is what is best for that vehicles engine. im not saying the 30wt is going to Kill it or fuel economy or anything like that. however, i believe that the 20wt will provide the best overall protection. toyota knows a little something about engines, and if they say 20wt is best, i would think your best bet will be to continue using a 20wt oil. just my thoughts.


I think your thoughts are logical. I just felt like trying something new and will UOA it for results. No doubt 20 weight is fine, same with 30. There are many who believe 20 was spec'd due to satisfying emissions standards (fuel economy). However, I see no difference in fuel economy thus far, also, other folks running 30 weight on this engine are stating the same. It may be some politics. The Toyota manual on this truck states it may be suitable to use a different grade other than 20 if conditions permit...So, I am not worried about using 30.

I mean it when I say, Thanks for the reasonable reply by you. Some folks on this forum seem unreasonable.

 

[DavesTundra]

- If saving money and getting good engine protection is your goal, then choosing the least-cost qualified oil is right for you.
- If your goal is to determine if Amsoil or GC is "better" for you, you're not on the right track.
- If bouncing from brand/grade to brand/grade and wasting synthetic is "best" for you emotionally, then so be it; nothing wrong with satisfying an emotional want. Just don't try to pass it off as "better" for the truck, because it won't be proven as such.



Darn, are these the only possible categories the effort could be classified as? haha.

Thanks for your input man.

Actually, I believe my 2008 manual states that 5k is the conventional OCI. It has been a while, so I would have to refer to it again to be sure.

Oh, and even with your non-productive comments...I will post the next UOA when the time comes.

 

[DavesTundra]

Double checked the manual and Toyota scheduled maintenance manual for the 2008 Tundra 5.7L. Recommends 5k OCI regardless if using dino/syn. Amsoil OE states that it should be run for the OEM recommended interval. Thus, I decided to check it at 5k before going longer. The UOA suggests it can be run for longer than 5k...So, next time I run this stuff, I will go 7,500 miles and UOA it.

So, I don't exactly call this a waste of syn. If I were to go and run 5k again, ya, it would be a waste of syn. This first run was part of my procedure to run this oil for longer than recommended OCI. If you think that is flawed, you are F.O.S.

Jumping from brand/grade to other brand/grade is a whole different story and could be discussed elsewhere I suppose. Considering the original purpose of this thread, it really does not need to be debated here, I suppose. My bad for bringing it up.

Thanks!!

 

[Artem]

^It's just not recommended to jump between different oils due to them having different levels of additives and the "POSSIBILITY" that it "COULD" screw things up.

If you're doing extended OCIs, it's best to stick to the same brand so the additives stabilize and you get consistent data. I've seen TBN retention get better with each consecutive UOA with the same brand of oil after switching from something else.