Rotella 10w-30; 3k miles; Duramax 6.6L

[dnewton3]

Annual Dmax UOA update

Code:


UOA # 4 3 n/a 1 Univ Avg

Date 2012 2011 2010 2009

grade (dino) 10w-30 10w-30 15w-40 10w-30

Brand Rot T Rot T Dlv1300 Rot T

Oil Mileage 3.0k 6.5k 7.0k 6.0k 6.6k

Truck mileage 36.5 33.5k 27k 20k

Filter Wix PureOne Wix Wix



Al 1 2 n/a 3 9

Chrom 0 1 n/a 0 0

Fe 7 14 n/a 10 12

Cu 2 3 n/a 5 10

Pb 1 5 n/a 2 3

Tn 1 0 n/a 1 1

Molyb 2 14 n/a 2 29

Nickel 0 1 n/a 0 0

Manganese 0 0 n/a 0 0

Potas 6 11 n/a 13 3

Boron 27 35 n/a 24 54

Silicon 9 11 n/a 11 9

Sodium 5 7 n/a 2 4

Calcium 2232 2336 n/a 2358 2661

Magnesium 26 113 n/a 10 229

Phos 951 1115 n/a 1001 1090

Zn 1069 1314 n/a 1201 1290

Barium 0 0 n/a 0 0





SUS @ 210F 64.7 67.6 n/a 72.5 58-69

cSt @ 100C 11.54 12.31 n/a 13.6 10-12.5

FP 410 415 n/a 425 >425

Fuel .5 0 n/a 0 < 2

Antifreeze 0 0 n/a 0 0

Water 0 0 n/a 0 < .5

Insolubles 0.2 0.2 n/a 0.3 < .6

TBN 8.1 n/a n/a n/a n/a


This is from my 2006 Dmax; truck is essentially stock with no power enhancements. The total mileage is much lower this year as we did not travel far out west, but did pull the trailer several places locally in-state. I ran 3k miles (~13 months) for this UOA cycle, with perhaps 40% of the miles allotted to heavy towing of RV and boat.

This does not indicate an OCI; this is a UOA only. Oil and filter were left intact and are still in service. Sample taken via the Fumoto drain valve as a “live” sample while running, after full temps achieved, to get a well-mixed sample representative of the sump load. No make-up oil added.

Because this vehicle is now out of warranty, I’m not obligated to do the “… or one year” OEM OCIs. So, I’m putting my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I’m going to run at least a two year OCI, and perhaps more depending upon next year’s UOA results. I’m doing this as proof of concept; oil has no idea how old it is, nor does the filter. Being able to UOA gives me peace of mind, and stays true to my mantra of using data as the driving factor in a pragmatic and safe maintenance program.

Wear, as expected with low exposure, was low. Contaminants are low. TBN is fine. Condemnation limits are so far out into the distance I can’t even see them on the horizon. No reason whatsoever not to extend the OCI by a year and resample.


Blackstone comments:
There isn’t anything present in this sample to suggest it’s time to change this oil out yet. Metal accumulations are very low, as we’d expect after just 3,000 miles on the oil. Averages are based on 6,700 ... We found .5% fuel in this sample, but that’s not enough to call a problem since it’s likely operational factors to blame. The TBN measured 8.1 showing plenty of active additive left in the oil … Go ahead and leave this oil in use. Up to 8,000 miles should be no problem at all.


Your comments and questions accepted.

 

[04SE]

You mean you had the same oil in that poor, poor Duramax for over a year and it did not seize up? I thought only a high dollar synthetic could protect like that. I am appalled at your blatant disregard for mainstream advertising. You are supposed to change your oil every 3 months or three thousand miles. I bet your Duramax is on it's last leg as a result of your gross negligence.

(However, I am betting your wallet is a little thicker because of it! Nice boring UOA, just what I like to see.)

 

[A_Harman]

This is Rotella conventional, not semi-syn?

Interesting that magnesium is low in this formulation. I'm used to seeing much higher mag in RT6.

 

[JHZR2]

I have a few UOAs on here that are >1 year. Nothing to prove there! Works fine so long as you have moisture and acid under control, which given your use profile, likely is the case!

 

[Jim Allen]

Looks gooda to me! Nothing really to comment on and nothing much to say but keep on keepin' on!

One thing... where is the best price on a Fumoto?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
This is Rotella conventional, not semi-syn?

Interesting that magnesium is low in this formulation. I'm used to seeing much higher mag in RT6.


Yes - all those are conventional oils listed in the UOAs.


I went and checked my listings; those are the correct mag numbers. All the Rotella 10w30 UOAs are CJ-4 oil, so I cannot explain the differences.

However, as usual, I focus on results. Nothing scary here to prevent me from another year on the same load.

 

[dnewton3]

Jim - if memory serves me correctly, I online-ordered my Fumoto via a local Amsoil dealer whom I no longer associate with, because of his demeanor. We should be thankful for folks like Paul and our former member Gary; great Amsoil reps and site supporters.

Fumoto has a site. I don't there's much savings to be had, but shopping around never hurts. You either find a good deal, or you confirm that you've already got the best price.

 

[yucca]

I know it is under acceptable limits (non issue at this point) but what are your thoughts on the half point of fuel dilution in the latest UOA?

 

[dnewton3]

I think, to be honest, it's a non-issue.
I am not concerned about it at all.
It will only warrant interest if I see it as a larger value upon the next UOA.

 

[Pwr Stroke]

A couple of questions:
1. Why do prefer a 10W30 over a 15W40 oil?
2. Did you get a UOA on the Delvac 15W40 oil? If so it would be nice to compare it to the Rotella 10W30.

Thanks in advance

 

[roadrunner1]

Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.

 

[Pwr Stroke]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.



Thanks Roadrunner1

Fords 6.7 psd specifies a 5w40 for Severe use including when using bio greater than 5% and a 10w30 for normal use.

Obviously these type of UOA results are very impressive.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.



Well stated. I am in agreement.

I'll add this, as a personal note. I enjoy trying new things. AS of now, the lighter grade HDEOs are gaining more acceptance; that wasn't true a few years ago. The lighter grades were really only popular inthe extreme north, with extreme cold. I personally am doing this to prove that the old "must use 15w-40 always" and "thicker is always better" mantras are outdated. Today's well desgined and manufactured engines can survive on properly spec'd and crafted lighter grades. I am, in short, doing this as proof of concept.

My UOAs, and roadrunner1's, clearly show that lighter grade dino oils are not to be feared. There are benefits (cold starts) that are not offset by the typical heavy/hard use thought of by most. While this current UOA of mine was not really extreme in nature, my last one was purposely pounded as hard as I could treat the oil; I was as merciless as I could be. And yet look at the results. The engine and oil show no ill effects. Roadrunner1's results are similar.

There are tangible benefits (better fuel economy, easier cold starts) and intangible benefits (emotional satisfaction of doing something odd and noteworthy), while proof exists that no harm is being done, and the engines are just as well protected. I'd put my dino 10w-30 up against any premium syn 5w-40 (in my given conditions) any day of the year with no reservation whatsoever.

 

[Pwr Stroke]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.



Well stated. I am in agreement.

I'll add this, as a personal note. I enjoy trying new things. AS of now, the lighter grade HDEOs are gaining more acceptance; that wasn't true a few years ago. The lighter grades were really only popular inthe extreme north, with extreme cold. I personally am doing this to prove that the old "must use 15w-40 always" and "thicker is always better" mantras are outdated. Today's well desgined and manufactured engines can survive on properly spec'd and crafted lighter grades. I am, in short, doing this as proof of concept.

My UOAs, and roadrunner1's, clearly show that lighter grade dino oils are not to be feared. There are benefits (cold starts) that are not offset by the typical heavy/hard use thought of by most. While this current UOA of mine was not really extreme in nature, my last one was purposely pounded as hard as I could treat the oil; I was as merciless as I could be. And yet look at the results. The engine and oil show no ill effects. Roadrunner1's results are similar.

There are tangible benefits (better fuel economy, easier cold starts) and intangible benefits (emotional satisfaction of doing something odd and noteworthy), while proof exists that no harm is being done, and the engines are just as well protected. I'd put my dino 10w-30 up against any premium syn 5w-40 (in my given conditions) any day of the year with no reservation whatsoever.


Thanks for the reply Dave... One thing that Runnrunner1 and your engines don't have to contend with is a DPF/Regen process that elevates the engine/turbo temerature's and promotes more diesel fuel in the crankcase. Add in Biodiesel which promotes even more diesel fuel in the crank case and I believe that's were the 5w40 oils command their place in an engine with DPF.

 

[roadrunner1]

Originally Posted By: Pwr Stroke
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.



Well stated. I am in agreement.

I'll add this, as a personal note. I enjoy trying new things. AS of now, the lighter grade HDEOs are gaining more acceptance; that wasn't true a few years ago. The lighter grades were really only popular inthe extreme north, with extreme cold. I personally am doing this to prove that the old "must use 15w-40 always" and "thicker is always better" mantras are outdated. Today's well desgined and manufactured engines can survive on properly spec'd and crafted lighter grades. I am, in short, doing this as proof of concept.

My UOAs, and roadrunner1's, clearly show that lighter grade dino oils are not to be feared. There are benefits (cold starts) that are not offset by the typical heavy/hard use thought of by most. While this current UOA of mine was not really extreme in nature, my last one was purposely pounded as hard as I could treat the oil; I was as merciless as I could be. And yet look at the results. The engine and oil show no ill effects. Roadrunner1's results are similar.

There are tangible benefits (better fuel economy, easier cold starts) and intangible benefits (emotional satisfaction of doing something odd and noteworthy), while proof exists that no harm is being done, and the engines are just as well protected. I'd put my dino 10w-30 up against any premium syn 5w-40 (in my given conditions) any day of the year with no reservation whatsoever.


Thanks for the reply Dave... One thing that Runnrunner1 and your engines don't have to contend with is a DPF/Regen process that elevates the engine/turbo temerature's and promotes more diesel fuel in the crankcase. Add in Biodiesel which promotes even more diesel fuel in the crank case and I believe that's were the 5w40 oils command their place in an engine with DPF.


My thinking is if you fall within the parameters of your owners manual you can't go wrong.

For the 6.0 at some point in time during its production Ford issued a TSB stating 10w-30 was acceptable up to 90f, I believe my owners manual states "acceptable up to 50f".
When the trucks in the northern states were having cold-start issues I am assuming that is when it was issued.

My local dealer uses 10w-30 for all Powerstroke oil changes, in fact I have a '89 IDI Superduty I switched over to 10w-30 a few years ago also.

With all of the UOA evidence posted here I would, and do, use it without hesitation.
Either lube you choose will work fine, but 5w-40 doesn't handle fuel dilution nearly as well as a 10w-30 or 15w-40.

 

[Pwr Stroke]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Originally Posted By: Pwr Stroke
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Dave, if I may I think that I can answer.

Both of us, along with several others switched to a 10w-30 several years ago in our 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. I have a 6.0 Powerstroke and obviously this post pertains to a Duramax.
10w-30 is the cheaper alternative to 5w-40, and in my particular truck wear numbers improved when I switched to 10w-30 vs. 5w-40.

The 10w-30 provides better cold-start properties over 15w-40, and as evidence here proves it also provides warm weather protection.



Well stated. I am in agreement.

I'll add this, as a personal note. I enjoy trying new things. AS of now, the lighter grade HDEOs are gaining more acceptance; that wasn't true a few years ago. The lighter grades were really only popular inthe extreme north, with extreme cold. I personally am doing this to prove that the old "must use 15w-40 always" and "thicker is always better" mantras are outdated. Today's well desgined and manufactured engines can survive on properly spec'd and crafted lighter grades. I am, in short, doing this as proof of concept.

My UOAs, and roadrunner1's, clearly show that lighter grade dino oils are not to be feared. There are benefits (cold starts) that are not offset by the typical heavy/hard use thought of by most. While this current UOA of mine was not really extreme in nature, my last one was purposely pounded as hard as I could treat the oil; I was as merciless as I could be. And yet look at the results. The engine and oil show no ill effects. Roadrunner1's results are similar.

There are tangible benefits (better fuel economy, easier cold starts) and intangible benefits (emotional satisfaction of doing something odd and noteworthy), while proof exists that no harm is being done, and the engines are just as well protected. I'd put my dino 10w-30 up against any premium syn 5w-40 (in my given conditions) any day of the year with no reservation whatsoever.


Thanks for the reply Dave... One thing that Runnrunner1 and your engines don't have to contend with is a DPF/Regen process that elevates the engine/turbo temerature's and promotes more diesel fuel in the crankcase. Add in Biodiesel which promotes even more diesel fuel in the crank case and I believe that's were the 5w40 oils command their place in an engine with DPF.


My thinking is if you fall within the parameters of your owners manual you can't go wrong.

For the 6.0 at some point in time during its production Ford issued a TSB stating 10w-30 was acceptable up to 90f, I believe my owners manual states "acceptable up to 50f".
When the trucks in the northern states were having cold-start issues I am assuming that is when it was issued.

My local dealer uses 10w-30 for all Powerstroke oil changes, in fact I have a '89 IDI Superduty I switched over to 10w-30 a few years ago also.

With all of the UOA evidence posted here I would, and do, use it without hesitation.
Either lube you choose will work fine, but 5w-40 doesn't handle fuel dilution nearly as well as a 10w-30 or 15w-40.


Roadrunner1,
Why does 10w-30 or 15w40 hand fuel dilution better than a 5w40?

Reason I ask is the Ford manual for the 6.7 contradicts this statement.

 

[roadrunner1]

Due to the larger spread between the W and the viscosity, but as I said if you follow the recommendations in the owners manual you can't go wrong.

A few years ago I had three sub-par UOA's with 5w-40, so I may be somewhat biased towards it, but generally speaking the closer the two numbers are the more shear stable the oil will be.

Personally I have a problem spending twenty some dollars for a fluid that one half of the price will preform just as well, in my case better.

Since you have a new truck I am going to assume you are going to follow the OLM, if you choose to use a synthetic are you considering extending your OCI's? I know you have purchased an expensive truck, but the evidence just doesn't show that an expensive synthetic oil lubricates twice as well, and I don't know if you are willing to leave it in twice as long to at least break even on your oil investment.

Oil changes are expensive enough with any of these trucks, whatever decision you make be sure to use the wealth of information here and elsewhere.

 

[dnewton3]

I suppose we'd have to be clear about what "5w-40" product we were talking about.

T6 has a large amount of VIIs in there. That's not bad, but it does allow for more shearing, especially in a HEUI system. OTOH - PAO 5w-40 have less (any???) VIIs, so the shearing will be a bit less.

I don't know that the base stock is going to affect a lube's ability to withstand contamination. Typically it's the add pack that plays this part with dispersants, detergents, etc. Therefore it's unfair to say that any one syn is automatically going to be "better" in regard to fuel dilution. No lube can resist fuel; no filter can remove fuel; no additive can prevent fuel from entering. Right? So as far as DPF regens go, I don't believe that one lube is going to be any "better" just because of base stock. Let's remember that the newer trucks with DPF and regen also have greater use of EGR. What I do believe is that any lube (regardless of stock) will be "better" with a stronger add-pack, and able to resist the other issues such as greater soot intrusion, because unless one deletes the EGR, it's also an issue to contend with. And soot is something the add pack can directly deal with.

We've seen far less shearing of 10w-30 grades in HEUI than 15w-40 grades. It's almost as if the HEUI simply prefers a thinner grade, and if you don't feed it one, it will take what you put in and create one for you! Plus, even with some shearing, it does not seem to statistically affect wear much if at all. So what if the oil shears a bit; I've not seen clear evidence that it manifests into degredation of the engine.

If I were in a hot climate, I'd simply use 15w-40 dino year round; too easy and cheap to ignore. But when I want easier/quicker cold starts in cold clim's, I'll use 10w-30 every time. Gives the starting aid, and yet still protects year round; UOAs prove this. I'll not ever fear the heat issue again, after the resounding success of my UOA last year and the pounding I dished out to the dino oil; it came through with aplomb.

My previous UOA showed the ability of a lighter grade dino and how it could take extreme heat with no make up oil. This current UOA is simply proof that oil has no idea how old it is, and can easily go past the "or one year" limit with UOA confirmation.

 

[bbslider001]

Stellar!! Again, proving what is true and what isn't.

 

[KevinsDMAX]

I don't understand why people are so hesitant to use 10W30 oil. According to the Duramax (and I'm sure other owners manuals) 10W30 is an acceptable viscosity grade for temp ranges between 0-100 F.