Amsoil Challenges Ski-Doo E-Tec/Rotax Claim!

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Bombardier Recreational Products gets the finger from Amsoil!

Bombardier or Ski-Doo and the E-Tec/Rotax engine said Amsoil and others failed the lube needs of it's engine. Amsoil states it's Warranty Secure Program will cover Amsoil and Bombardier failed to provide certain specifications asked for and also claims Bombardier tests are flawed. Amsoils new program is challenging the claim and states " Amsoils Interceptor 2 Stroke oil will keep your factory warranty intact.....
 
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We'll see how this turns out...
 
Amsoil has to prove that their oils meet OEM spec so Bombardier or Ski-Doo will always have the upper hand. All the OEM needs to do is send out a letter to their dealers saying Amsoil does not meet spec and that would be the end of it. If you use Amsoil you will void the warranty, plain and simple.

Regardless, I still believe Amsoil is better than 80% of all the 2T oils out there and would not hesitate to use it.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Amsoil has to prove that their oils meet OEM spec so Bombardier or Ski-Doo will always have the upper hand. All the OEM needs to do is send out a letter to their dealers saying Amsoil does not meet spec and that would be the end of it. If you use Amsoil you will void the warranty, plain and simple.

Regardless, I still believe Amsoil is better than 80% of all the 2T oils out there and would not hesitate to use it.


Not according to Amsoil....
 
"If you use Amsoil you will void the warranty, plain and simple."

Not true according to Amsoil.

Amsoils "Warranty Secure Program" not only say's you can use their oil in this and other applications, but say's you can go past the OEM and extend to their OCI level and the OEM must prove the failure was oil related failure. This proves the same with injector or oil mixed gas applications. Amsoil will fight the OEM and then or before fix the part. It is a win-win deal if you want to use Amsoil Products.
 
If the OEM denied your warranty then you have to go to Amsoil because you have no other choice. If the OEM said no to Amsoil and you run it then you did not follow the owner manual, which is the number one reason for warranty denial. Good luck with waiting for the outcome between Amsoil and the OEM while you are riding your bicycle to work.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If the OEM denied your warranty then you have to go to Amsoil because you have no other choice. If the OEM said no to Amsoil and you run it then you did not follow the owner manual, which is the number one reason for warranty denial. Good luck with waiting for the outcome between Amsoil and the OEM while you are riding your bicycle to work.


I believe Amsoil wants you to tell the dealer you will be doing 15K or 25K or one year OCI's. If the dealer say's they won't honor the warranty, Amsoil wants you to get it in writting. Forward the letter to Amsoil and they will contact the OEM and Straighten things out! I have read the Magnum Moss warranty act and believe Amsoil is correct with their point. In the case of gas and oil mix, the same notification can be made.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If the OEM denied your warranty then you have to go to Amsoil because you have no other choice. If the OEM said no to Amsoil and you run it then you did not follow the owner manual, which is the number one reason for warranty denial. Good luck with waiting for the outcome between Amsoil and the OEM while you are riding your bicycle to work.


Exactly, why hassle it? Will Amsoil back you up? I guess, maybe, yes, no, who knows for sure? I for one wouldn't want to find out the hard way. It could take a lot of time and cost money to get things sorted out. While under warranty use what the mfg recommends.
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2

I believe Amsoil wants you to tell the dealer you will be doing 15K or 25K or one year OCI's. If the dealer say's they won't honor the warranty, Amsoil wants you to get it in writting.


The dealer will tell you to follow the owner manual or get lost. Amsoil cannot make the dealer do anything. Believing otherwise and you will pay dearly.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2

I believe Amsoil wants you to tell the dealer you will be doing 15K or 25K or one year OCI's. If the dealer say's they won't honor the warranty, Amsoil wants you to get it in writting.


The dealer will tell you to follow the owner manual or get lost. Amsoil cannot make the dealer do anything. Believing otherwise and you will pay dearly.


If the warranty issue did not involve the lube oil, the dealer would fix the problem whether Amsoil or SkiDoo oil was used? I don't believe they would tell the customer to take a hike?

If the lube oil was at fault, Amsoil would pay the repair costs! NO?

It will be interesting to see what Amsoils outcome with SkiDoo will be in the legal department. Their Warranty Secure program rests on this very case of the Subject of this post.
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
[

If the lube oil was at fault, Amsoil would pay the repair costs! NO?



It depends on whether Amsoil agree with the finding or not. If the dealer said the non-approved oil is the problem and Amsoil said it's the oil pump then you will have to wait for the court's verdict. Amsoil has always said to follow the owner manual so take that into consideration.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2

I believe Amsoil wants you to tell the dealer you will be doing 15K or 25K or one year OCI's. If the dealer say's they won't honor the warranty, Amsoil wants you to get it in writting.


The dealer will tell you to follow the owner manual or get lost. Amsoil cannot make the dealer do anything. Believing otherwise and you will pay dearly.


A US court will make the dealer honor the warranty. Congressional action (moss magnuson warranty act aftermarket/products/restraint of trade) under the Interstate Commerce Clause gives courts the power and offers consumers some protection.
The reality is who wants to deal with it. Is it [censored] that manufacturere's do this, yes....but without a class action it is a PIA on your own. The key in this specific case would be if the oil's characteristics caused or allowed damage to occur. I obssess here, but doubt oil choice is ever the cause of catastrophic failure.
 
Originally Posted By: Cmarti

A US court will make the dealer honor the warranty.

The reality is who wants to deal with it. Is it [censored] that manufacturere's do this, yes....but without a class action it is a PIA on your own. The key in this specific case would be if the oil's characteristics caused or allowed damage to occur. I obssess here, but doubt oil choice is ever the cause of catastrophic failure.


Failure to follow the owner manual is ground for warranty denial in any US court. Check with your lawyer if you don't understand what I just said.

Many people have premature cam wear with VW PD engine even using the factory/dealer recommended oil and oil change interval. If you cannot prove that you were using VW505.01 oil then you are out of luck with a warranty claim. Read the last paragraph in the TSB below and see if you can win in court.

http://www.billswebspace.com/vw.tb.17-05-01_engine_oil_vw505.01.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
BRP just wants U to buy "their" oil. Marketing at its best simple as that.


Exactly, just trying to corner their own little oil empire forcing peeps to purchase their over inflated priced oils
mad.gif


Intersting article here, not sure if it proves it beyond a reasonable doubt though?
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3039.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: Cmarti
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2

I believe Amsoil wants you to tell the dealer you will be doing 15K or 25K or one year OCI's. If the dealer say's they won't honor the warranty, Amsoil wants you to get it in writting.


The dealer will tell you to follow the owner manual or get lost. Amsoil cannot make the dealer do anything. Believing otherwise and you will pay dearly.


A US court will make the dealer honor the warranty. Congressional action (moss magnuson warranty act aftermarket/products/restraint of trade) under the Interstate Commerce Clause gives courts the power and offers consumers some protection.
The reality is who wants to deal with it. Is it [censored] that manufacturere's do this, yes....but without a class action it is a PIA on your own. The key in this specific case would be if the oil's characteristics caused or allowed damage to occur. I obssess here, but doubt oil choice is ever the cause of catastrophic failure.


While this might be true why bother? Odds are you'd have to hire a Lawyer if it got that far, that costs money. Use an oil approved by the mfg and eliminate one less stressful event should there be a problem that isn't cut and dry. Let Amsoil fight their own battle for approval, or pay if they have too, something they probably don't want to do. If they get the approval then use the product if you desire, otherwise use something else. Just my point of view.
 
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: ridgerunner
BRP just wants U to buy "their" oil. Marketing at its best simple as that.


Exactly, just trying to corner their own little oil empire forcing peeps to purchase their over inflated priced oils
mad.gif


Intersting article here, not sure if it proves it beyond a reasonable doubt though?
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3039.pdf


Irv thanks for posting this. It's right on topic!
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Cmarti said:
A US court will make the dealer honor the warranty.

The reality is who wants to deal with it. Is it [censored] that manufacturere's do this, yes....but without a class action it is a PIA on your own. The key in this specific case would be if the oil's characteristics caused or allowed damage to occur. I obssess here, but doubt oil choice is ever the cause of catastrophic failure.


"Failure to follow the owner manual is ground for warranty denial in any US court. Check with your lawyer if you don't understand what I just said." Incorrect

I am a lawyer...Unreasonable requests to use only OEM made aftermarket parts and lubricants, when others manufactured to equal standards are available will not void a warranty per the federal act I quoted for you. It is considered restraint of trade. Is it practical to tangle with a dealer/manufacturer who has more resources?...maybe not. However you are flat out wrong that the law requires strict compliance to OEM products before any payment of damages. The court will look to the proximate cause of the loss, not a technicality required by the manufacturer.
 
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One question I'm left with this is: Is BRP specifically stating that no other lube meets their requirements? I don't think that was their position.

If they did, the easy remedy is to demand free oil. The MM Act specifically states that if OEM branded proudcts are required as part of the warranty compliance, then the product must be provided free of charge. Imagine the look on the face of the dealer when you show him a copy of the MM Act (easy to get with google) and then say "I want my free oil."

However, I don't think they said that it MUST be their brand of oil; they only excluded Amsoil's product.

This will have to play out in court, with some poor sap (or a few of them) willing to be the test case(s).

On face value, I suspect Amsoil would win this, but it would be a long uphil battle, if they lock horns.

The official FTC site for the MM info:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
details:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law#Magnuson-Moss
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3




This will have to play out in court, with some poor sap (or a few of them) willing to be the test case(s).

On face value, I suspect Amsoil would win this, but it would be a long uphil battle, if they lock horns.

The official FTC site for the MM info:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
details:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus01-businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law#Magnuson-Moss


Why would someone want to be the poor sap is my question? The only people making money in this would be Amsoil for selling oil to the poor sap, and the poor sap's lawyer if the s---- ever hit the fan. JMO
 
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