Oil temp on 6.0L with synthetic oil ,
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I doubt a syn that has similar viscometrics will run noticeably cooler. Your truck is running in a perfect temp range so no need to switch to a "syn". My Chargers run the same temps on conventional or syn.
This has been discussed before, and the answer is that there is virtually no difference.
Originally Posted By: dparm
This has been discussed before, and the answer is that there is virtually no difference.
+1
This has been discussed before, and the answer is that there is virtually no difference.
+1
I don't consider 212 to be that warm for oil, truth be told. If you had said 260 then I think we should talk about adding a bigger oil cooler.
The most important temp to monitor with a 6.0 is the differential between the oil temp and coolant temp.
15f max difference at 60 mph unloaded on level terrain.
The coolant flows through the oil cooler, then to the EGR cooler. When the oil cooler becomes clogged it will starve the EGR cooler from coolant, causing it to flash boil the coolant and eventually rupturing, snowballing into head gasket issues.
So you have to monitor oil and coolant temps together, knowing one without the other doesn't mean much.
15f max difference at 60 mph unloaded on level terrain.
The coolant flows through the oil cooler, then to the EGR cooler. When the oil cooler becomes clogged it will starve the EGR cooler from coolant, causing it to flash boil the coolant and eventually rupturing, snowballing into head gasket issues.
So you have to monitor oil and coolant temps together, knowing one without the other doesn't mean much.
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The most important temp to monitor with a 6.0 is the differential between the oil temp and coolant temp.
15f max difference at 60 mph unloaded on level terrain.
The coolant flows through the oil cooler, then to the EGR cooler. When the oil cooler becomes clogged it will starve the EGR cooler from coolant, causing it to flash boil the coolant and eventually rupturing, snowballing into head gasket issues.
So you have to monitor oil and coolant temps together, knowing one without the other doesn't mean much.
Install a coolant filter and eliminate the clogged oil cooler...the 6.0s have small orifice's and the filter will keep the coolant free of debris. Friend of mine does Ford diesel work and I see that problem a lot and the fix is easy. I'd never own a 6.0 and up Ford BTW. He had a 7.3 in for maintenance and the clock had 375 thousand miles.
The most important temp to monitor with a 6.0 is the differential between the oil temp and coolant temp.
15f max difference at 60 mph unloaded on level terrain.
The coolant flows through the oil cooler, then to the EGR cooler. When the oil cooler becomes clogged it will starve the EGR cooler from coolant, causing it to flash boil the coolant and eventually rupturing, snowballing into head gasket issues.
So you have to monitor oil and coolant temps together, knowing one without the other doesn't mean much.
Install a coolant filter and eliminate the clogged oil cooler...the 6.0s have small orifice's and the filter will keep the coolant free of debris. Friend of mine does Ford diesel work and I see that problem a lot and the fix is easy. I'd never own a 6.0 and up Ford BTW. He had a 7.3 in for maintenance and the clock had 375 thousand miles.
Originally Posted By: dparm
I don't consider 212 to be that warm for oil, truth be told. If you had said 260 then I think we should talk about adding a bigger oil cooler.
X2, Not high temps at all.
You want that oil 200+, that's a GOOD thing!
I don't consider 212 to be that warm for oil, truth be told. If you had said 260 then I think we should talk about adding a bigger oil cooler.
X2, Not high temps at all.
You want that oil 200+, that's a GOOD thing!
The 198°F/212°F temps that you are encountering are considered perfectly normal operating oil temps. Steve SRT8 makes a very good point saying that 212°F oil temperature is ‘A GOOD THING!’. We all know that water is one by-product of combustion of fossil fuel like gas or diesel. Inside an engine this water is picked up and held by the oil. The primary way this water contamination is removed from the engine and the oil is through vapor created when the oil reaches water’s boiling point of 212°F. The vapor can then easily escape through the PCV and exhaust systems. In the same vein, though, dparm also has a valid point about the crankcase oil reaching 260°F. At that temperature, synthetic engine oil and a large(r) oil cooler would be the best way to deal with such a situation. For the type of driving you have described, oil temps look fine. Don’t think going to full synthetic would be of enough benefit to your situation to justify the difference in cost between a full synthetic and a ‘dino’ oil.
Unfortunately almost all of the above posts don't understand how a 6.0 diesel operates.
You can't simply just add another oil cooler if your temps were too high, if your oil temp is more than 15f higher than your coolant temp you have a cooling system issue that needs addressed.
Your engine oil temp currently is regulated by the thermostat, if it exceeds the above mentioned delta there is a blockage in the coolant passages of the oil cooler.
You can't simply just add another oil cooler if your temps were too high, if your oil temp is more than 15f higher than your coolant temp you have a cooling system issue that needs addressed.
Your engine oil temp currently is regulated by the thermostat, if it exceeds the above mentioned delta there is a blockage in the coolant passages of the oil cooler.
All a thermostat does in any engine is guarantee a certain minimum temp. The max temp is governed by other factors like loading and fueling.
dnewton3
Staff member
I do not own a 6.0L PSD, but my neighbor does, and he's seen the gamut of the reported 6.0 problems including turbo vanes stuck, EGR cooler issues and oil cooler blockage, etc.
After much review, he and I are of the impression that the root cause is the oil cooler passages being too small, as roadrunner1 has stated. These coolers become blocked with debris. This causes a domino effect in reducing coolant flow, which overheats the oil (affects turbo, injectors, etc) and also the EGR cooler (affects the cooling system by overheating it, and ultimately burping coolant out the tank and/or blowing head gaskets). It's not a question of "if" this will happen, but "when" it will happen. In short, the oil cooler will become blocked, which makes for low coolant flow, and hot oil.
My neighbor went through 2 partial turbo replacements, one full turbo replacement, the EGR cooler was upgraded with an aftermarket item, and finally a new oil cooler was installed. Ironically, a simple coolant bypass filter would probably stop all this from happening. He found a nice kit on-line, but one could piece it together from scratch. Plenty of options out there.
This oil overheating condition often creates these subsequent mechanical issues, and then the oil gets blamed ... How many times have we seen some brand lambasted for a perception of poor performance, when the oil is not the root cause? You could choose to run synthetics, but it would only serve to delay some problems (not stop them) and it would not even address others.
Another problem is that the injector control module needs 48v to run the injectors properly. Letting the batteries get low often will degrade the pump driver components, irreparably damaging them. You can put in fresh batteries, and the problem will persist because the driver module is now degraded. The symtoms are slow/lazy injection events that will result in hard starting and/or poor fuel economy. Again - people often blame the lube for these issues because it's an HEUI system, and it's actually not the lube that is the root cause. No synthetic oil, nor oil additive, is going to resolve this. Only replacing the driver module will fix this, and then keeping batteries in good condition will avoid it.
The 6.0L can be a very good engine, but it needs a bit of help with some aftermarket goodies. Once those are on, it's an ultra-reliable runner.
After much review, he and I are of the impression that the root cause is the oil cooler passages being too small, as roadrunner1 has stated. These coolers become blocked with debris. This causes a domino effect in reducing coolant flow, which overheats the oil (affects turbo, injectors, etc) and also the EGR cooler (affects the cooling system by overheating it, and ultimately burping coolant out the tank and/or blowing head gaskets). It's not a question of "if" this will happen, but "when" it will happen. In short, the oil cooler will become blocked, which makes for low coolant flow, and hot oil.
My neighbor went through 2 partial turbo replacements, one full turbo replacement, the EGR cooler was upgraded with an aftermarket item, and finally a new oil cooler was installed. Ironically, a simple coolant bypass filter would probably stop all this from happening. He found a nice kit on-line, but one could piece it together from scratch. Plenty of options out there.
This oil overheating condition often creates these subsequent mechanical issues, and then the oil gets blamed ... How many times have we seen some brand lambasted for a perception of poor performance, when the oil is not the root cause? You could choose to run synthetics, but it would only serve to delay some problems (not stop them) and it would not even address others.
Another problem is that the injector control module needs 48v to run the injectors properly. Letting the batteries get low often will degrade the pump driver components, irreparably damaging them. You can put in fresh batteries, and the problem will persist because the driver module is now degraded. The symtoms are slow/lazy injection events that will result in hard starting and/or poor fuel economy. Again - people often blame the lube for these issues because it's an HEUI system, and it's actually not the lube that is the root cause. No synthetic oil, nor oil additive, is going to resolve this. Only replacing the driver module will fix this, and then keeping batteries in good condition will avoid it.
The 6.0L can be a very good engine, but it needs a bit of help with some aftermarket goodies. Once those are on, it's an ultra-reliable runner.
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i agree love the 6.0 no matter how many people hate them just something about them when you drive one it's hard to want to drive another breed. I'm trying to figure out if i should continue using brad penn 15w40. or trying rotella t6? we've been using brad penn here on our dairy farm and love it.
dnewton3
Staff member
The use of synthetics comes down to a few key points for decision. To justify using any synthetic, you must be able to capitalize on one or more of the advantages they offer:
1) extended OCIs
2) extreme temps (I mean super-uber e-x-t-r-e-m-e)
If you're intending to greatly extend the OCIs, and monitor with UOAs, then point 1 is moot; you'll not see any benefit.
Being in OH, you're not going to see super-duper cold starts on a repeated basis, nor are you going to see deathly hot temps. Any conventional fluid can survive what you'll throw at it. Being a PSD, you can gain the benefits of better starts and cold running by using a lighter grade HDEO (10w-30) rather than a 15w-40, and still get excellent wear protection. It's been proven by several who choose this path.
There is nothing magical about synthetics. There is nothing inherently wrong with conventional lubes. ANY fluid, regardless of base stock, can be over or under utilized.
What you should be seeking is the best ROI. Either of those two lubes will well protect your engine. Which one will do it for the least cost, in your particular operating environment when used in your specific maintenance plan?
It is simply a matter of defining your needs (not wants), developing a maintenance plan you can sustain, and then picking a lube that is the least cost product that successfully provides the required performance. Read my signature line; that says it all.
I will note, that in another (another nearly identical thread you have started ....) you indicate that you're committed to 5k mile OCIs. In that case, it is HIGHLY likely you'll glean zero benefit from any synthetic.
1) extended OCIs
2) extreme temps (I mean super-uber e-x-t-r-e-m-e)
If you're intending to greatly extend the OCIs, and monitor with UOAs, then point 1 is moot; you'll not see any benefit.
Being in OH, you're not going to see super-duper cold starts on a repeated basis, nor are you going to see deathly hot temps. Any conventional fluid can survive what you'll throw at it. Being a PSD, you can gain the benefits of better starts and cold running by using a lighter grade HDEO (10w-30) rather than a 15w-40, and still get excellent wear protection. It's been proven by several who choose this path.
There is nothing magical about synthetics. There is nothing inherently wrong with conventional lubes. ANY fluid, regardless of base stock, can be over or under utilized.
What you should be seeking is the best ROI. Either of those two lubes will well protect your engine. Which one will do it for the least cost, in your particular operating environment when used in your specific maintenance plan?
It is simply a matter of defining your needs (not wants), developing a maintenance plan you can sustain, and then picking a lube that is the least cost product that successfully provides the required performance. Read my signature line; that says it all.
I will note, that in another (another nearly identical thread you have started ....) you indicate that you're committed to 5k mile OCIs. In that case, it is HIGHLY likely you'll glean zero benefit from any synthetic.
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I get 198* empty 210* PULLING 26 round bales at 1050lbs each. I use T6 or RP 15w40. love my 6.0
Advise I offer:
1.DO NOT extend oil change intervals on the 6.0 even with synthetic.
2. Add a coolant filter if you haven't already.
3 I have the egr deleted, if you can't delete it, get a Bullet Proof cooler from Industrial Injection
4. Keep good batteries on the truck. If they are weak, you can fry the FICM...
5. Drive it like you stole it frequently or load it VERY heavy to keep the soot out of the turbo. That is most of why they are replaced.
6 Keep FRESH oil in it, don't extend the intervals..
7... more to come later
Advise I offer:
1.DO NOT extend oil change intervals on the 6.0 even with synthetic.
2. Add a coolant filter if you haven't already.
3 I have the egr deleted, if you can't delete it, get a Bullet Proof cooler from Industrial Injection
4. Keep good batteries on the truck. If they are weak, you can fry the FICM...
5. Drive it like you stole it frequently or load it VERY heavy to keep the soot out of the turbo. That is most of why they are replaced.
6 Keep FRESH oil in it, don't extend the intervals..
7... more to come later
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The listed oil temperatures are in the normally warm range. You do not want the oil colder than this.
Love Brad Penn oil? Come on. You can love your family. You can have oil that has given you good service and you continue to express your confidence in it with your wallet. There are a dozen or more oils equally excellent, and a few better. The better oils are probably not needed. The advantage you'll see with any 5W-40 oil is better engine protection when very cold.
Dusty's item #5 is important. Diesel engines run best between 75% and 90% load. They run hot enough to burn out contaminants. The practice of letting a diesel engine idle longer than it takes to cool the turbocharger is a poor practice, as is using a diesel where it is just loafing. If one is buying a diesel for a specific load, you'll buy one to run in that 75-90% range. Bigger is not better. A vehicle engine is a different story, but again, these engines do best when worked. I've trained in two diesel engine factories, and both warned against running with light load unless absolutely necessary.
Love Brad Penn oil? Come on. You can love your family. You can have oil that has given you good service and you continue to express your confidence in it with your wallet. There are a dozen or more oils equally excellent, and a few better. The better oils are probably not needed. The advantage you'll see with any 5W-40 oil is better engine protection when very cold.
Dusty's item #5 is important. Diesel engines run best between 75% and 90% load. They run hot enough to burn out contaminants. The practice of letting a diesel engine idle longer than it takes to cool the turbocharger is a poor practice, as is using a diesel where it is just loafing. If one is buying a diesel for a specific load, you'll buy one to run in that 75-90% range. Bigger is not better. A vehicle engine is a different story, but again, these engines do best when worked. I've trained in two diesel engine factories, and both warned against running with light load unless absolutely necessary.
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