I should have said a Bosch or NGK. I have no idea what was going on with Motorcraft 14 yrs ago.
Vikas BPR5EIX is the Iridium. NGK 6597
Vikas BPR5EIX is the Iridium. NGK 6597
Why do people use cheap copper plugs still?
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Vikas the Platinums would be BP5EVX non resistor or BPR5EVX resistor. the iridiums and platinums are both available all over.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Trav
I never heard of anyone loosing pucks off platinum plugs.
Allow me to report that the OEM platinum plugs on my stock 98 ZX2 lost their pucks on more than one plug in less than 60K. The replacement plugs also shared the same fate.
If that's the Focus with the Zetec engine then the OEM platinum plugs only had the puck on one surface. It varied with the cylinder due to it's waste spark design. My '96 Contour with the Zetec was that way. The replacement plugs are Motorcraft double plats.
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Trav
I never heard of anyone loosing pucks off platinum plugs.
Allow me to report that the OEM platinum plugs on my stock 98 ZX2 lost their pucks on more than one plug in less than 60K. The replacement plugs also shared the same fate.
If that's the Focus with the Zetec engine then the OEM platinum plugs only had the puck on one surface. It varied with the cylinder due to it's waste spark design. My '96 Contour with the Zetec was that way. The replacement plugs are Motorcraft double plats.
Whimsey
Kestas
Staff member
I am aware of the fact that the original plugs had two single plats and two double plats. They still suffered from loss of pucks. You could see the residual shape on the surface of where the pucks were bonded. Replacements were all double plats, and suffered the same fate. I had the car from new to 201K.
Because people stick with what the manual said and a lot of older cars spec copper.
The same reason why many people are still buying 10w30 when 5w30 is better in almost every way.
The same reason why many people are still buying 10w30 when 5w30 is better in almost every way.
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Originally Posted By: DJ
IN my experience ASE certification means skilled parts swapper, has NOTHING to do with understanding how everything works.
The higher thermal conductivity of copper certainly can come in handy once you start turning up the power, adding nitrous etc..
Just because a technology is old doesn't make it without any benefit.
Arguments like "faster starting" are generic and used to push an opinion. My car has nearly double stock HP still NA, stock coil/module/distributor, copper plugs and a couple points more than stock compression and fires instantly even after sitting the winter.
For my daily driver I wont be putting copper in it, for modified vehicles though the better cooling of copper can come in handy. Sometimes we have to deal with things like cylinder to cylinder airflow imbalance and such that would make a fine wire that doesn't cool well detonate in a lean cylinder that is hot and on rich cylinders plugs will get dirty no matter what type they are.
I am not saying copper is better, just that it still has a place on the shelves of the parts stores.
Newsflash: they are all copper cored these days, "copper" plug is just steel / steel alloy electrode plug with copper core, all others are the same "copper" core plug with various exotic material at the tip of the electrode.
IN my experience ASE certification means skilled parts swapper, has NOTHING to do with understanding how everything works.
The higher thermal conductivity of copper certainly can come in handy once you start turning up the power, adding nitrous etc..
Just because a technology is old doesn't make it without any benefit.
Arguments like "faster starting" are generic and used to push an opinion. My car has nearly double stock HP still NA, stock coil/module/distributor, copper plugs and a couple points more than stock compression and fires instantly even after sitting the winter.
For my daily driver I wont be putting copper in it, for modified vehicles though the better cooling of copper can come in handy. Sometimes we have to deal with things like cylinder to cylinder airflow imbalance and such that would make a fine wire that doesn't cool well detonate in a lean cylinder that is hot and on rich cylinders plugs will get dirty no matter what type they are.
I am not saying copper is better, just that it still has a place on the shelves of the parts stores.
Newsflash: they are all copper cored these days, "copper" plug is just steel / steel alloy electrode plug with copper core, all others are the same "copper" core plug with various exotic material at the tip of the electrode.
That sounds more like a quality control issue then a design flaw inherent to platinum plugs in general.
The only business I am responsible for is my business and if someone likes standard copper plugs so what?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yes i know this is common with German makers and Bosch, they never seem to update the specs on anything.
I see it all the time with injectors also, they still spec these old metal body units even when newer much improved and superior composite/metal units are available from Bosch with identical specs.
Not to mention that the fuel injection system was a little out of date, so to speak, for the year the vehicle was built. But they worked. The only thing I've seen with easier plugs was a lawnmower.
Yes i know this is common with German makers and Bosch, they never seem to update the specs on anything.
I see it all the time with injectors also, they still spec these old metal body units even when newer much improved and superior composite/metal units are available from Bosch with identical specs.
Not to mention that the fuel injection system was a little out of date, so to speak, for the year the vehicle was built. But they worked. The only thing I've seen with easier plugs was a lawnmower.
Is there any evidence of iridium plugs losing their puck with the laser welding ?
Or is it just the platnium plugs that are the issue ?
Or is it just the platnium plugs that are the issue ?
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Detonation is the key word.
Backyard tuners clamping the waste gate shut are what comes to mind.
+1 They also many times fail to realize that the mods they have done can really have an effect on combustion chamber temps and plug heat range requirements.
I have never seen or heard of loosing the platinum disc when the correct plug type and heat range was used.
Note that we have run the old ACDelco double plats to over 250k miles without touching them! Still intact and running well.
Quote:
Detonation is the key word.
Backyard tuners clamping the waste gate shut are what comes to mind.
+1 They also many times fail to realize that the mods they have done can really have an effect on combustion chamber temps and plug heat range requirements.
I have never seen or heard of loosing the platinum disc when the correct plug type and heat range was used.
Note that we have run the old ACDelco double plats to over 250k miles without touching them! Still intact and running well.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: DJ
IN my experience ASE certification means skilled parts swapper, has NOTHING to do with understanding how everything works.
The higher thermal conductivity of copper certainly can come in handy once you start turning up the power, adding nitrous etc..
Just because a technology is old doesn't make it without any benefit.
Arguments like "faster starting" are generic and used to push an opinion. My car has nearly double stock HP still NA, stock coil/module/distributor, copper plugs and a couple points more than stock compression and fires instantly even after sitting the winter.
For my daily driver I wont be putting copper in it, for modified vehicles though the better cooling of copper can come in handy. Sometimes we have to deal with things like cylinder to cylinder airflow imbalance and such that would make a fine wire that doesn't cool well detonate in a lean cylinder that is hot and on rich cylinders plugs will get dirty no matter what type they are.
I am not saying copper is better, just that it still has a place on the shelves of the parts stores.
Newsflash: they are all copper cored these days, "copper" plug is just steel / steel alloy electrode plug with copper core, all others are the same "copper" core plug with various exotic material at the tip of the electrode.
Except for some Bosch Platinums which have platinum all the way thru the plug. Quote "Only Bosch Platinum Plus features a platinum center electrode that's heat-fused into an extended ceramic insulator to eliminate air gaps which exist in platinum alloy-tipped plugs."
Originally Posted By: DJ
IN my experience ASE certification means skilled parts swapper, has NOTHING to do with understanding how everything works.
The higher thermal conductivity of copper certainly can come in handy once you start turning up the power, adding nitrous etc..
Just because a technology is old doesn't make it without any benefit.
Arguments like "faster starting" are generic and used to push an opinion. My car has nearly double stock HP still NA, stock coil/module/distributor, copper plugs and a couple points more than stock compression and fires instantly even after sitting the winter.
For my daily driver I wont be putting copper in it, for modified vehicles though the better cooling of copper can come in handy. Sometimes we have to deal with things like cylinder to cylinder airflow imbalance and such that would make a fine wire that doesn't cool well detonate in a lean cylinder that is hot and on rich cylinders plugs will get dirty no matter what type they are.
I am not saying copper is better, just that it still has a place on the shelves of the parts stores.
Newsflash: they are all copper cored these days, "copper" plug is just steel / steel alloy electrode plug with copper core, all others are the same "copper" core plug with various exotic material at the tip of the electrode.
Except for some Bosch Platinums which have platinum all the way thru the plug. Quote "Only Bosch Platinum Plus features a platinum center electrode that's heat-fused into an extended ceramic insulator to eliminate air gaps which exist in platinum alloy-tipped plugs."
DJ, spoken like someone who has never fought for a certificate! Typical opinion, but far from accurate. I held several NIASE certs for decades, and some are pretty tricky. But I'm sure you do better.
And I have never seen ANY plug that was not copper in the body all the way to the electrode. I have run nitrous on dozens of strip rats, and I can guarantee you that you can cut a good light without running copper plugs.
I have a full tilt stroker BBC in a boat with over 850 hp on the dyno, and it runs NGK platinum/iridium as well. The info you are propagating is very dated.
And I have never seen ANY plug that was not copper in the body all the way to the electrode. I have run nitrous on dozens of strip rats, and I can guarantee you that you can cut a good light without running copper plugs.
I have a full tilt stroker BBC in a boat with over 850 hp on the dyno, and it runs NGK platinum/iridium as well. The info you are propagating is very dated.
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