Seafoam vs Liqui Moly Engine Flush?

[newhandle]

Recently had an opportunity to try out LM engine flush on a bi-turbo Audi. The oil change reported no sludge, as has been the case with all my cars and dozens of cans of Seafoam. I would like to know everyone's experiences with Liqui Moly engine flush. LM is a respected German brand and I value it over every other oil company, especially Exxon/Mobil.

Here's the thing though... I run SF for 100+ miles in the oil, but LM flush says to only idle engine for 10 minutes and change the oil. Does anyone know if the LM product is really that potent? May be the company knows its snake oil won't do jack and 10 minutes of idle won't bring in customer with blown engines either.

Experiences and opinions please...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Most engine flushes recommend idle for 10-15 minutes then change the oil.

Lubegard, Amsoil ... engine flushes have the same recommendation.

I used 1/2 oz Lubegard engine flush per quart of oil and drive normally for about 100 miles then change the oil. Before I added Lubegard I drop few oil drops on a white business card, then check the oil condition every day, the color got darker very quickly. After 100 miles it was almost black.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Depends on what engine flush product you are using in the range. Their Pro-Line series is for professional users, i.e. workshops and repair centers. It's also 500 ml instead of the standard 300 ml. I use Pro-Line, and allow the engine to idle for 25 minutes before draining. The R&D Manager at LM does not recommend running the flush for more than 25 minutes.

 

[nitehawk55]

Damage to seals concerns me with these flushes .

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Damage to seals concerns me with these flushes .

I'm with nitehawk55

 

[LeakySeals]

Seafoam is being marketed as an engine flush now? Wow. Thats a long way from where it started in 1930 - boat engine fuel stabilizer and lube.

Depending on what your trying to accomplish, I dont think fast flushes have the time to work on hardened deposits or varnish. I have tried 500-1k oil adds. Kreen from Kano Labs gave me the best results for my situation.

The rubber seals used today are very resistant to detergents and various chemicals. I wouldn't be too concerned (if used as directed).

Whats the difference between a fast flush and a cleaner oil additive? Maybe somebody knowledgeable can look at the following..

Proline:
"One 500 ml can is sufficient for up to 5 litres of oil. Add Pro-Line Engine Flush to the engine oil at running temperature before changing the oil. After adding the product, allow the engine to idle for approx. 10 to 15 minutes depending on the degree of contamination. Then change the oil and the filter. Pro-Line Engine Flush is compatible with all commercially available engine oils"
Pro-Line Engine Flush MSDS

Kreen:
Directions
Put a pint of Kreen in the gas and another in the oil every 1000 miles.
Complete Purge Directions:
When the motor is badly clogged with carbon and using an excess amount of oil, it needs a Kreen purge. Remove the plugs and squirt about an ounce of Kreen into each cylinder. Replace the plugs and turn the motor a few times with the starter. Then let it rest for at least half an hour-overnight if practical. Add a quart of Kreen into the old oil and a pint into each five gallons of gas in the tank, and run the motor half an hour or longer. drain and fill with fresh oil.
Kreen MSDS

 

[ltslimjim]

If one is concerned with volatile chemicals, the Amsoil engine flush and also Lubegard's engine flush do not contain solvents.

 

[skyship]

I would never run any turbo charged engine above idle with any kind of flushing oil or flush additive. The LM time limits are good and there is no chance of their additives causing a leak.
If you have baked on varnish from years of dino oil use, then the only safe solution to to remove the head and sump and clean them directly.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
If one is concerned with volatile chemicals, the Amsoil engine flush and also Lubegard's engine flush do not contain solvents.


Amsoil Engine Flush MSDS:
HYDROTREATED PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, 15-20%
2-BUTOXYETHANOL, GLYCOL ETHER EB, 20-25%
ALIPHATIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES, appx wt=60-65%

Lubegard Engine Flush MSDS:
HYDROTREATED PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, LIGHT PARRAFINIC INGREDIENTS ?

Pro-Line Engine Flush MSDS:
Naphtha (petroleum), hydrodesulfurized heavy 50-100%
Mineral oil mist 10-25%
Benzenesulfonic acid, propenated, calcium salt, overbased ≤ 2.5%
Benzenesulfonic acid, C10-60-alkyl derivs., calcium salts ≤ 2.5%
Polyolefin-polyaminsuccinimid ≤ 2.5%
Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate ≤ 2.5%

Kreen Internal Combustion Engine Cleaner For Industrial Use (not a fast flush) MSDS:
SEVERELY HYDROTREATED PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, 15-25%
aliphatic petroleum distillates, 15-25%
aliphatic alcohol, 15-25%
GLYCOL ETHER, 5-15%
aliphatic ketone, 5-15%
PROPRIETARY INGREDIENTS, 5-15%

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Only flush a filthy engine... if that.

If you've kept up with your OCI's you are likely running clean.

If goober brings me his car after going 10K on conventional, then I'll do a 5-10 min flush with Gunk... otherwise, no need.

Only clean what's dirty.. your engine oil has cleaning agents in it... they have for many years now.

 

[ltslimjim]

Okay then the labels lie? They claim no solvents. Maybe another marketing ploy, w/e. I've used all of the products, expect for Kreen.

PS: You don't idle flush a sludge filled engine, IMO. If dirty means lots of deposits, no concern of chunks breaking free, then okay.

 

[Gebo]

I'm just saying, the only place I like chunks of stuff is in my Dairy Queen Blizzard.

 

[TC]

Liqui Moly Engine Flush Plus isn't really special (neither "special special" nor "short-bus special"). It's 70%-94% CAS 64742-82-1 naphtha solvent, aka "white spirit" (but not a racist spirit or segregationist in any way). A fairly generic petro-solvent for engine flushes, fuel injector cleaners, etc. If this stuff is pricey in any way, it ain’t worth it. Except maybe for the “white ghost” aspect – that actually might be pretty cool to watch. I certainly wouldn’t want to be poured into an engine if I was a white or multiethnic ghost – I’d put on one heck of a show if it was me, all spectral n’ stuff.
http://www.chemical-check.de/clientversi...voiladb=web.nsf

 

[LeakySeals]

I was curious what a non solvent cleaner was made from so I created that list. I wasn't disputing claims.

I Just went back and looked again. While Amsoil web affiliates/distributors sell a product called "Amsoil Engine Flush AEF" the official Amsoil site only lists a product called "AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush". The Amsoil Engine Flush AEF MSDS was dated 2008 and listed above. There is a AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush MSDS on the official site dated 2011 and of course like many new MSDS lists nothing, no composition. AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush is listed as a "detergent" in the product description.

So..assumption is Amsoil Engine Flush AEF was replaced by AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush. Amsoils business model of selling through web affiliates and resellers has many websites lacking product updates. Looks like companies no longer have to list composition in MSDS anymore so I dont know what its mads of. If its safe to run in transmissions an/or engines, would say your original assertion of non-solvent was correct.

The lubegard MSDS comes from them, so what you see up above stands.

 

[TC]

If an engine's innards are relatively clean (little sludge or white ghosts), I suspect the possibility of "chunking" into an oil passage is quite small. I've used motor flushes on occasion for decades with no ill-effect (except for me huffing the solvent fumes...a brief experimentation phase I went through that ended badly). On the other hand, if an engine looks like the inside of Charlie Sheen's skull, then chunkification is a possibility, I presume. Ironically, the engines that could use a flush the most are the same ones that could be Lindsay Lohaned through chunkification. That said, legitimate "My engine was chunked by an engine flush" stories appear to be fairly rare, both on this site and others.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

I know, but it's so much fun to try and tear the guts out of anyone who says "motor flush".... Just mention it and the trolls will come off their mountains.

I use them in certain scenarios, but it's infrequent.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I was curious what a non solvent cleaner was made from so I created that list. I wasn't disputing claims.

I Just went back and looked again. While Amsoil web affiliates/distributors sell a product called "Amsoil Engine Flush AEF" the official Amsoil site only lists a product called "AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush". The Amsoil Engine Flush AEF MSDS was dated 2008 and listed above. There is a AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush MSDS on the official site dated 2011 and of course like many new MSDS lists nothing, no composition. AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush is listed as a "detergent" in the product description.

So..assumption is Amsoil Engine Flush AEF was replaced by AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush. Amsoils business model of selling through web affiliates and resellers has many websites lacking product updates. Looks like companies no longer have to list composition in MSDS anymore so I dont know what its mads of. If its safe to run in transmissions an/or engines, would say your original assertion of non-solvent was correct.

The lubegard MSDS comes from them, so what you see up above stands.


Not sure why people don't contact me or go direct to Amsoil.com

http://www.amsoil.com/msds/flsh.pdf

AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush

 

[Turk]

Gotta love the before & after pictures.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I was curious what a non solvent cleaner was made from so I created that list. I wasn't disputing claims.

I Just went back and looked again. While Amsoil web affiliates/distributors sell a product called "Amsoil Engine Flush AEF" the official Amsoil site only lists a product called "AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush". The Amsoil Engine Flush AEF MSDS was dated 2008 and listed above. There is a AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush MSDS on the official site dated 2011 and of course like many new MSDS lists nothing, no composition. AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush is listed as a "detergent" in the product description.

So..assumption is Amsoil Engine Flush AEF was replaced by AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush. Amsoils business model of selling through web affiliates and resellers has many websites lacking product updates. Looks like companies no longer have to list composition in MSDS anymore so I dont know what its mads of. If its safe to run in transmissions an/or engines, would say your original assertion of non-solvent was correct.

The lubegard MSDS comes from them, so what you see up above stands.


Not sure why people don't contact me or go direct to Amsoil.com

http://www.amsoil.com/msds/flsh.pdf

AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush


Ok..consider this contact. What started this was the assertion that AMSOIL Engine (and Transmission) Flush was not solvent based. That means (to me) a product that is not hard on seals, blends better with oil, etc. The MSDS does not list chemical composition. Can you please elaborate on what is it made out of, and what makes this product different than the solvent based cleaners listed above?

 

[newhandle]

I'd rather do solvent based cleaners in short bursts... you can't be too careful with sludge. That thing grips like it's part of the engine. Also, is AMSOIL a supporter of this forum now? My question was restricted to LM vs Seafoam, the answer to which was given in the first few posts. Now it's just a ****-swinging contest between PHDs of sludge.