Hey everybody! Great forum, learning much more than I probably need to know! I do have a question that I can't find answered through the search function though, and it pertains to firearms as well. Is fresh motor oil toxic? I mean, I know that once it's gone through the ole combustion engine it comes out with benzines and other compounds that are considered carcinogens. But it doesn't seem to be very toxic in it's own right--though I don't plan on drinking it.
I was looking at the MSDS for AMSOil's 20w50 synthetic, and it has "No known significant effects or critical hazards." listed under all of the health effects categories, both acute (skin/eyes, etc.) and chronic (carcinogenicity, etc.). Under handling they recommend you wash your hands afterwards or use gloves if you feel like it. It also has nothing listed under California's Prop.65/WHMIS/State Regulations regarding carcinogenic compounds and ingredients. Finally, it gets a "0" in the health category for the Hazardous Material Information System (HMIS) chart -- "No significant risk to health."
Meanwhile, "non-toxic" gun lubricants/cleaners like Gunzilla list things like:
EYE CONTACT : Will produce redness, burning, and stinging. Prolonged and/or repeated contact with eyes
untreated can cause conjunctivitis that may result in permanent eye damage.
INHALATION : Inhalation of vapors over a prolonged continuous period of exposure (4 hours) in a non-ventilated
environment, may result in respiratory distress.
SKIN CONTACT: Can cause redness, flaking and drying of skin if left untreated. Prolonged and/or repeated
contact can result in dermatitis and/or burns.
INGESTION : Will cause nausea, vomiting diarrhea, irritation and can result in burning of the digestive tract.
Finally, they put this on their website:
"Don was stunned four years ago when a U.S. Soldier came home complaining about the hazardous chemicals the military required him to use to clean his weapon with no protection, no MSDS sheet and no warnings. Then while Don was researching the hazardous chemical issue he learned about the weapon malfunction problems in combat caused by sand, dust, carbon and cold temperatures. It didn't make any sense that a country who put a man on the moon can't provide soldiers with a safe and effective weapons cleaner."
Meanwhile, Gunzilla has a "2" in the HMIS health section, signifying "Temporary or minor injury may occur."
Compared to the mil-spec CLPs (both the old Break-Free and current issue G96 Synthetic), it seems to be more hazardous. Both of these get a "1" for "Irritation or minor reversible injury possible" and state nothing beyond "may cause irritation" with regard to bodily contact, unlike the previously stated flaking, burning and... diarrhea. Granted, there's more to toxicity than the HMIS, but without a list of ingredients (ala Gunzilla) it's all there is to judge by, really.
This sort of seems like a hit piece on Gunzilla now that I'm reading it back, haha! I understand it's also a cleaner--unlike motor oil, explaining the extra hazards. To be honest, I'm not really a big stickler when it comes to this stuff, as it seems just about anything in an excessive dose will be toxic, cancerous anddelicious eventually fatal. However, I think that the people I've heard decrying motor oil as a gun lubricant on the grounds of toxicity are full of [censored]--especially compared to the "non-toxic" alternatives. Aren't they?
Furthermore, in that respect, would one expect any changes in the toxicity of motor oil after use as a lubricant (normal toxicity of carbon/fouling buildup and things one would encounter with general firearms use aside, that is)? I wouldn't think so, intuitively. And I swear I've used the search function for these things but everything seems to be in regard to post-combustion oil!
I do have one final, more gun related question! I live in the middle of the desert and I figure it's best if I get a heavier ~20w50 synthetic. AMSOIL has treated me well in the past, but I'm having trouble deciding between two of their oils: 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO), and 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCV)**
The motorcycle oil has "more" oxidation inhibitor additives and no friction modifiers. Marginally higher flash point/lower pour point. It has a higher viscosity at operating temps, though even after learning about viscosity indexs and centistokes the difference is unfamiliar to me beyond a general "less viscous/more viscous". About half the evaporation rate too, for what that's worth.
I was sort of under the impression that antifriction and antiwear went hand in hand, though it seems not. I take it I want antifriction additives in a gun, right? A little confused here. I mean my cursory understanding is this has to do with the clutch and the relevant EP packages, but without investing more time in understanding the particular physics of the matter I'm not sure if this is even relevant for firearms use.
In summary (TL;DR):
* How toxic is fresh motor oil?
* Which of the aforementioned oils** would be a superior general firearms lubricant in a desert climate?
(by the way--as previously mentioned I have copies of the latest MSDS's for G96 Synthetic and Break-Free, if anyone's interested. They seemed to be hard to come by from what I've read around the net, so I figured I'd throw that out there for the curious) Thanks for taking the time to read this spiel!
I was looking at the MSDS for AMSOil's 20w50 synthetic, and it has "No known significant effects or critical hazards." listed under all of the health effects categories, both acute (skin/eyes, etc.) and chronic (carcinogenicity, etc.). Under handling they recommend you wash your hands afterwards or use gloves if you feel like it. It also has nothing listed under California's Prop.65/WHMIS/State Regulations regarding carcinogenic compounds and ingredients. Finally, it gets a "0" in the health category for the Hazardous Material Information System (HMIS) chart -- "No significant risk to health."
Meanwhile, "non-toxic" gun lubricants/cleaners like Gunzilla list things like:
EYE CONTACT : Will produce redness, burning, and stinging. Prolonged and/or repeated contact with eyes
untreated can cause conjunctivitis that may result in permanent eye damage.
INHALATION : Inhalation of vapors over a prolonged continuous period of exposure (4 hours) in a non-ventilated
environment, may result in respiratory distress.
SKIN CONTACT: Can cause redness, flaking and drying of skin if left untreated. Prolonged and/or repeated
contact can result in dermatitis and/or burns.
INGESTION : Will cause nausea, vomiting diarrhea, irritation and can result in burning of the digestive tract.
Finally, they put this on their website:
"Don was stunned four years ago when a U.S. Soldier came home complaining about the hazardous chemicals the military required him to use to clean his weapon with no protection, no MSDS sheet and no warnings. Then while Don was researching the hazardous chemical issue he learned about the weapon malfunction problems in combat caused by sand, dust, carbon and cold temperatures. It didn't make any sense that a country who put a man on the moon can't provide soldiers with a safe and effective weapons cleaner."
Meanwhile, Gunzilla has a "2" in the HMIS health section, signifying "Temporary or minor injury may occur."
Compared to the mil-spec CLPs (both the old Break-Free and current issue G96 Synthetic), it seems to be more hazardous. Both of these get a "1" for "Irritation or minor reversible injury possible" and state nothing beyond "may cause irritation" with regard to bodily contact, unlike the previously stated flaking, burning and... diarrhea. Granted, there's more to toxicity than the HMIS, but without a list of ingredients (ala Gunzilla) it's all there is to judge by, really.
This sort of seems like a hit piece on Gunzilla now that I'm reading it back, haha! I understand it's also a cleaner--unlike motor oil, explaining the extra hazards. To be honest, I'm not really a big stickler when it comes to this stuff, as it seems just about anything in an excessive dose will be toxic, cancerous and
Furthermore, in that respect, would one expect any changes in the toxicity of motor oil after use as a lubricant (normal toxicity of carbon/fouling buildup and things one would encounter with general firearms use aside, that is)? I wouldn't think so, intuitively. And I swear I've used the search function for these things but everything seems to be in regard to post-combustion oil!
I do have one final, more gun related question! I live in the middle of the desert and I figure it's best if I get a heavier ~20w50 synthetic. AMSOIL has treated me well in the past, but I'm having trouble deciding between two of their oils: 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO), and 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCV)**
The motorcycle oil has "more" oxidation inhibitor additives and no friction modifiers. Marginally higher flash point/lower pour point. It has a higher viscosity at operating temps, though even after learning about viscosity indexs and centistokes the difference is unfamiliar to me beyond a general "less viscous/more viscous". About half the evaporation rate too, for what that's worth.
I was sort of under the impression that antifriction and antiwear went hand in hand, though it seems not. I take it I want antifriction additives in a gun, right? A little confused here. I mean my cursory understanding is this has to do with the clutch and the relevant EP packages, but without investing more time in understanding the particular physics of the matter I'm not sure if this is even relevant for firearms use.
In summary (TL;DR):
* How toxic is fresh motor oil?
* Which of the aforementioned oils** would be a superior general firearms lubricant in a desert climate?
(by the way--as previously mentioned I have copies of the latest MSDS's for G96 Synthetic and Break-Free, if anyone's interested. They seemed to be hard to come by from what I've read around the net, so I figured I'd throw that out there for the curious) Thanks for taking the time to read this spiel!
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