Gun Butter... any good?

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Well I am no expert on gun lubrication-I am just an ordinary guy who has tried a lot of different gun lubes. I did try Gun Butter.

I did not like the stuff. It has been quite a well since I tried it but if I remember correctly it was like putting honey on the gun surfaces. And a tiny little bottle of the stuff is really expensive.

That professional gunsmith recommended Breakfree. I have observed that a lot of professional gunsmiths seem to prefer Breakfree.

The people I shoot with seem to typically use a gun lube like RemOil, Breakfree, or Hoppes Elite. I feel RemOil is a little thin but a lot of people I know use it. I have obtained good results using Breakfree except for one gun I owned in the past that seemed to malfunction with Breakfree. I have tried other stuff like Bichwood Casey gun oil that seems to work well and Ballistol. Ballistol has a strange smell but it will clean and lube a gun.

After I tried a very large number of products I pretty much decided that there were no magic gun lubes and Breakfree was pretty much as good as anything else. And I can get it locally. I got tired of trying to find the magic gun oil that would stop all wear, allow no rust, and suddenly make any shooter a professional.


Gee, Haven't we heard all this just recently??? Yes, we have. Why? Because the old standby's are old standby's for a reason, they just work! "Wonder" gun lubes come and go for a reason, they are too expensive and don't live up to their claims. I am especially seeing this with frog lube right now. Last year, the internet and gun community exploded with this stuff (raving about how great it is, hype) and it is already beginning to fizzle out. lol People are angry because it doesn't protect from rust or lubricate half as well as the advertising claims, it's also very expensive and not compatible with any petroleum product.

I will say this though, I am glad there is so much competition in the gun care market, it is good for all of us. Some of the old standbys are losing their value from reformulations (especially breakfree). Anyways, I really do enjoy firearm care and firearm care products just like I do the car care world. I look forward to more testing in the future.

 

[Mystic]

Well, I am glad there is competition also when it comes to gun lubes. But I have given up searching for some sort of magical gun oil.

And AMC, are you saying that Breakfree is declining in quality? If it is, I will probably just use Hoppes Elite gun oil or Birchwood Casey gun oil. If I could get Ballistol locally I would use it. The stuff smells kind of bad but it cleans and lubricates. I likes Tetra gun grease pretty well also.

 

[Mystic]

I noticed AMC that you put Ballistol number one, Birchwood Casey number two, and Breakfree number three. I gave Ballistol a trial myself several years ago. It had a bad smell but it cleaned and lubricated a gun, and it really seemed to work well. I think the Germans used it in World War II.

Not too long ago I tried Breakfree and Birchwood Casey and Hoppes Elite. I was not too impressed with Hoppes Elite but Birchwood Casey seemed to be as good as Breakfree in my opinion. I did not care for some of the stuff that was in it-I guess for cleaning. I would rather clean with Hoppes No. 9 and Hoppes Elite.

Birchwood Casey is supposed to be a synthetic oil with PTFE, effective from very low to very high temperatures. I would not use PTFE in a car engine but on a gun it might be fine. I still have a can of the stuff (and I even like the can it came in). And I can get it locally-at exactly one place that I know of. If Breakfree is being reformulated and declining in quality I will probably use Birchwood Casey gun oil, since I know of no place to get Ballistol locally.

 

[Thingfish]

I could even mix a custom fluid. Start with a high VI ester, add a tackifier (sp?), something like polyisobutane to make it stay put, a pour point depressant, etc. I have greases here from McLube that are a pao base with a large concentration of moly and zinc ( http://mclube.com/products/84 ) that have a -90 pour point.
(complex and poe )
Start with maybe a Motul 300v multi ester ^ 0/40 and modify it with some things like above.
Ya never know, it MIGHT be a wonder lube.
The only downside I can think of is that it would stain if concealed or open carried.

I use a few McLube items on my car and it works perfectly. ( I have some moly and moly/ptfe dry lubes and a few of their thicker greases. NLGI 2, pao base, lots of moly..... Good stuff.

 

[AMC]

Yes unfortunately, Breakfree has majorly declined over the years. About 10 years ago and before that it was great. Breakfree was the approved military CLP and for good reason. It had a good P.A.O. base stock, a good amount of teflon and some detergent/solvent carrier for cleaning. It really was good stuff, It had a high flashpoint and the teflon did a great job of building up on the pores of the steel so that after you cleaned and lubed a gun with breakfree a few times, you developed a sacrificial layer of teflon between the steel mating surfaces and it greatly reduced wear to the mating metals.
Check out the old msds and notice the 270F flash point:
www.tompkins-co.org/msds/m2291.pdf

Today, the ownership of breakfree brand has changed several times and the formula has changed with it. The Teflon went away around 2006 (about the time the army dropped breakfree for Royco) and just recently, it has more solvents in it which make the flash point very low.
Here is the new MSDS, notice the new revision date and lower flashpoint 201f
store.krollcorp.com/.../MSDS/Break-Free20CLP20Liquid20CLP20M...

Breakfree CLP is still a decent rust preventer but it's lubricating abilities have really declined. I never found breakfree to be a good cleaner either. Breakfree clp was all I was allowed to clean my weapons in the army with for a while and it sucked! It took forever and heavy deposits had to mechanically removed. My buddies and I would sneak a can of carb cleaner in our range bags whenever we thought we could, lol. That was until I PCS'd to fort bragg and learned of ballistol.

Ballistol is still pretty good stuff. I order it by the gallon and have used it on everything for years! It is one of the best non solvent type cleaners I have ever used. As a CLP type product, the area I find it lacking is the Lube area. It is basically just light mineral oil and doesn't really have any additives to help it lube either. Sure it is naturally very slick but it evaporates very quickly and the flashpoint is only 165F the last time I looked. As a rust preventer it is ok, but not good for long term storage because it is hygroscopic, meaning it actually absorbs moisture out of the air. All this being said, If I could only have 1 gun care fluid and 1 only, this would be it. The other neat stuff ballistol can do is cool too, it is good for wood, leather, rubber, removes stickers, cleans cuts and scrapes, and I have even used it to shave...lol Every sportsman should have some.

Birchwood casey products are all old technology (like the 1911 pistol

) but they do work. 2 in 1 bore scrubber stinks but it is one of the best bore solvents still (way stronger than hoppes# 9). Birchwood casey synthetic gun oil with ptfe is kind of a rip off as far as ingredients but it does work great as a cleaner and lube surprisingly. It is 98% heavy hydro treated naptha (lantern oil), 8% teflon (wow), and 2% rubbing alcohol lol. There is nothing "synthetic" about it at all but the flashpoint is 235F, which is better than the new breakfree clp or ballistol. It also evaporates slower than either of them, which is surprising. The major downside to BC gun oil as a CLP type oil is it's "P" or rust Preventing qualities. It has NONE! In my corrosion testing (and others) metal that has been treated with BC synthetic gun oil rusts just as bad as the controls, if not worse. If you lube or clean your guns with BC gun oil, you really need to wipe down the outside with something that prevents rust well. Yes, I agree, I love the flip spout can the liquid BC synthetic gun oil comes in.

I am going to write a mini report on all of the gun care products I have tested and post it here one day. I feel like I am having these discussions way too much but I like them anyways! It is so funny hearing everyone's perception on guns and gun care products. I chuckle every time I hear some say ballistol is only good for lubricating, doesn't clean and smells like feet. To me it smells like black licorice (the black jelly beans, yummy!), is a great cleaner, and doesn't do much as a lube at all. lol Enjoy!

 

[Mystic]

AMC, thanks for all the information about the gun cleaning and lubrication products. You really do know a lot about all of that stuff, don't you!

Now I am going to have to reevalauate what I use for cleaners and gun lubrication.

If Breakfree is declining in quality I will find something else. I have noticed that it seems like it is harder to find Breakfree. My local Wal-Mart no longer carries it and there are only a few places I can find it now. Would that possibly be due to the decline of product quality?

I will give Birchwood Casey 2 in 1 bore cleaner a try. Hoppes No. 9 definitely is not as strong as it used to be. They took some stuff out of it. And I still have some Birchwood Casey oil although it has been sitting around a long time. It should still be good, right?

I did like Ballistol. With one product you can clean and lubricate. The large can was reasonable in price. But as far as I know I cannot get it locally. Sometimes it smelled like licorce and sometimes it smelled like dirty socks.

It seems to me that other choices are WeaponShield and Hoppes Elite. I suppose somebody could clean a bore with Birchwood Casey 2 in 1 and the rest of the gun with something else, and then use WeaponShield for lubrication. WeaponShield is expensive however.

It seems to me that Hoppes Elite does not stay on a gun surface as well as Breakfree. What do you think about Hoppes Elite?

And what do you think about using some kind of grease on a semi-auto?

Even if Breakfree has declined in quality I would use it before I used RemOil.

There does not seem to be a lot else. Glock has some kind of expensive gun oil.

 

[AMC]

Hey no problem, I am glad to help out and will be here all day

That is strange your wal-mart doesn't carry breakfree, all the ones around me do. Breakfree is an OK lube and good rust stopper but it just isn't what it used to be. I doubt the declining quality of it has anything to do with its availability, that must just be your area.

Birchwood casey 2in1 bore scrubber is a powerful ammonia type bore solvent and only really needed for high power rifles which deposit copper. You can use it on heavily neglected bores of any type but really, it is overkill for just general cleaning.

The Birchwood casey synthetic gun oil will still be good, just shake the heck out of it before you use it. When I talked to birchwood casey on the phone a few weeks ago, they told me that their synthetic gun oil is going to be reformulated in about 6 months to a year and will not contain teflon anymore. I look forward to checking the new version out but the original stuff is still available, still good stuff, still very cheap too. Just remember it is a poor rust stopper, that is its one weakness.

LOL about ballistol, I have never noticed it smelling anything like socks but that must just be my nose. At $65 a gallon, ballistol is a great value for what it does.

Stay away from hoppes brand in general. The only thing I use from them is their bore snakes and I don't consider them must haves anyways. Hoppes# 9 (the bore solvent and oil) is old and obsolete, the hoppes elite gun cleaner is the same thing as Mpro7 cleaner and it is just OK. Hoppes elite oil is pretty much junk too, seems like breakfree but with a thicker viscosity, not worth the price. I catch alot of flak for it but in my experience and testing, hoppes products are junk.

Another very popular product that you should stay away from is Rem oil and its Remington brand gun care products. Rem oil is 50% mineral spirits, way too thin, has a very low flash point, contains like .5% teflon and actually makes metal rust worse than pure solvent for some reason. If you don't believe me, go look at the msds for rem oil, it really is 50% mineral spirits! Pure junk, yuck!

Weapon shield- It cleans about as well as breakfree clp (not real good but good enough I suppose) is an awesome lubricant that can really withstand heat (flashpoint is in the high 400f range) and is a good rust stopper, maybe a little better than breakfree. The weakness I see in this product is that it is expensive and contains chlorinated paraffin which can etch metal and cause cancer in humans. The inventor of weapon shield claims they are long chain chlorinated parrafins so it is safe and wont etch metal but I still don't like it. As a gunsmith and just very active person, I have lots of little cuts and scrapes on my hands and I still wouldn't want to use weapon shield with out gloves.

I am currently testing something else right now and it might just the be diamond in the dirt that I just found. It has been talked about alot and really nothing new but I am impressed! Corrosion X. It cleans slightly better than break free, is an excellent lubricant and is one of the best rust stoppers on the market. The flashpoint is almost 300F and it is basically non toxic. Best of all, it only costs $85 per gallon which is damm cheap for what it is and what it can do. My testing isn't 100% complete yet but so far this might be the best thing I have found yet and eclipse Ballistol as my go to CLP.

Grease can be used on guns that have high shear friction areas but it must be used in tandem with a quality gun oil. The m-14 is about the only weapon I know of that you could use grease and nothing else on but it still works better with a quality oil.

Again, one day I am going to write a mini report on all the gun products I have tested and post it here. Stay tuned.

 

[Mystic]

Thanks AMC. You read to me like the real deal, like somebody who really knows what he is talking about. I don't listen to somebody who is just trying to push some product and has some connections to some company selling some kind of stuff they claim is the wonder gun oil product. Every once in a while somebody new comes along saying that their Brand X whatever is the wonder gun oil to end all other gun oils. But the old stuff just stays around. However maybe the old stuff today is just the old stuff. I have wondered for a long time why there is not more research by some major lubrication company to develop better gun lubrication products. After all, a lot of people in the USA own guns.

I never believed in RemOil. It always seemed too thin to me. I have somewhat mixed feelings about Hoppes products. What people are looking for is some product that is reasonably safe to use and reasonable in price and something that will work well. Tempest here at Bitgo is a guy I believe is honest and knowledgeable and he likes WeaponShield. But I don't care for the chlorinated paraffin it contains. I like guns but I would rather wear several guns out than have me get cancer! And I don't want the gun damaged by the chorinated paraffin either. And WeaponShield is expensive. People need something that is reasonable in price.

I have a Smith&Wesson M&P 9 mm semi-auto. What do you recommend for cleaning the bore of the barrel? Would the Birchwood Casey synthetic gun oil be good enough? How about for cleaning the rest of the gun? Can the Birchwood Casey gun oil clean and lubricate? I still have a can of the stuff. And it still has PTFE because I have had it for a while. I have shot thousands of rounds through that little S&W over the years. It is getting a little worn and I will have to replace it with a new one or have it rebuilt by a gunsmith one of these days. Mostly I have used Breakfree.

I will look into CorrosionX. If it will get the job done (cleaning, lubrication, and protection) at a reasonable price that is what I am looking for. The problem is I probably will not be able to find it locally.

What I might do for now is clean with the Birchwood Casey gun oil and I still have some WeaponShield. I could use it just for lubrication.

 

[AMC]

Thanks for the kind words, most of my customers say similar things about me.

BC Synthetic gun oil with ptfe will do the trick to clean and lube your M&P. If you really want the bore spotless you might have to use a more aggressive solvent but for normal range trips and such, BC gun oil will be fine. As a lube, the BC gun oil will be fine also, it really does a good job of sticking to the friction areas such as the frame/slide rails. To finish, I would just wipe the exterior of the slide down with your breakfree (or any proven rust stopper) so it has a nice even shine to it and then put it away without touching the area you just wiped (handle it by the frame only).

So many people shine the exterior of the gun properly to prevent rust and then do a functions test or load the gun, which defeats the whole purpose and smudges all the oil of the exterior gun. To further protect your guns, try not to store your guns in the holsters or anywhere that something is actually touching the gun, it will wick off some of the oil on exterior of the gun, which is your main defense against rust. Happy Shooting!

 

[Mystic]

AMC thanks for the information. Just to let you know I have now done a little research on CorrosionX. It is used for a lot of different stuff and is even used by the Navy for a multi-barrel gun. It has a lot of the documentation you like such as a number and so forth. There is a version for guns but some people on the internet are saying it is actually cheaper to use the product in the red container instead of the tiny bottle for gun use. They just charge more for the product when it is used for guns.

I think for now I will use the Birchwood Casey gun oil to clean and lubricate my gun and use the Breakfree to protect the outside like you say to do.

This CorrosionX is apparently sold at True Value Hardware Stores. I shoot at an outdoor range that is not far from a True Value Hardware Store located near a small airport. I have not been in that hardware store but they may have CorrosionX there. The next time I shoot I will check out that hardware store.

If they do have CorrosionX I will buy some and see how it works on my gun. They may have it in the store or maybe I could order it there. I don't like to order anything on the internet anymore.

If it works great I will start using it from now on and forget all of this other stuff. After all, it can clean and lubricate and protect so there would be no need for a separate cleaner. Even if it is more expensive than Breakfree I would save the cost for a separate cleaner.

If I am not impressed with it I will just use the can of Birchwood Casey oil I already own and the Breakfree I already own.

This CorrosionX is also supposed to be relatively safe so I like that too. And it will make maintenance easier if I can use the same product for cleaning and lubrication.

I plan on going shooting on my next days off so I will let you know what I find out. If I have to order that CorrosionX it may take a while.

 

[Mystic]

Actually that True Value Hardware Store is only a little more than thirty miles away, and was not a long distance number. I called and the woman who answered said that they do not have CorrosionX. So I will just use the Birchwood Casey oil and Breakfree.

I might buy another can of that Birchwood Casey before they remove the PTFE and reformulate it.

 

[AMC]

Cool, I will check my local ace hardware also. Yes the corrosion x for guns is the same exact thing as original corrosion x, just in a smaller bottle.

Go ahead and pick up some more Birchwood Casey Gun oil, it's good for around the house too and can be used in place of 3-in-1. One thing I should tell you though, although you may not like buying off the internet, when it comes to gun products, you are going to very limited in selection and almost always over pay if you buy locally, just a heads up.

Here is a secret I learned over the years: Almost any CLP type product that you find lacking in the "C" or Cleaning department can be turned into a nice cleaning solution very easily and inexpensively. I have done this with breakfree clp over the years and it works great. Take your CLP (breakfree, weaponshield, Corrosion x, ETC) type product and mix it at a 1/10 ratio with Odorless mineral spirits. Now you will have a heavy solvent based cleaner with just a little bit of lubricant and rust stopping qualities. You won't have to worry about getting every single drop of the solvent off because it will still have a little bit of "LP" quality to it if it gets left behind to evaporate.

If corrosion x turns out to be a weak cleaner, I will mix some of this up and use the solution to clean, wipe it off the best I can and then re-lube and wipe down with full strength corrosion x.

 

[bradh]

First post here I think (though I frequent as a reader), will try to keep short and relevant.

Briefly, have you heard of either MPro7 LPX or the G96 product? Both are purported CLP products. I don't own, sell or use them, just curious really. I've yet to use up the gallon of Break-Free I bought a while ago.

As a toxicologist (that is what they call me at work anyway) there is something in the MPro7 that I kinda don't like. G96.. jesh.. I have no idea, can't seem to find (on the internet) what is in it, no MSDS, nada. Anyone know what is in it?

From what I can see, long chain chlor-paraffin critters don't come with a cancer risk, not in the literature anyway. I'm not smart enough to know if they have the potential to harm metal but would suspect that the formula has some sort of corrosion inhibiting package. Not an engineer.. but don't some of the EP additives work kinda-sorta like "controlled corrosion," and as such some corrosive properties are assumed?

I'll keep combing the literature from time to time, if I see anything pop up about the long chain halogenated paraffins, I'll speak up.

Great forums, many thanks!

Brad

 

[bradh]

...I'd humbly add that we should consider wearing PPE (gloves, glasses) when cleaning our guns. Certainly can't hurt to minimize exposure.

I suspect that just about any cleaning product will come with some risk.

Okay, thanks again!
Brad

 

[QuidQuo]

Hey bradh. I'm new here too, but I think I can partially answer your questions.

I know MPro7 Gun Oil was a very popular "non-toxic" oil, but it seems they've updated the product earlier this year (to MPro7 Gun Oil LPX). Now it contains More information.

Regarding G96, I got the MSDS from the manufacturer a few days ago. Looks alright to me, though I'm not a toxicologist! It also meets MIL-PRF-63460E(3), the latest standard for CLPs. It's on the military qualified products list for sale and distribution too. It seems to be one of the better bets when it comes to gun products, if simply because it's held to a standard unlike many of them. I've been meaning to get some to try it out but shipping is kind of expensive and I can't find a local supplier.

I have the relevant MSDS's on my google docs account. I made all of the relevant stuff public (and some of the other things I've collected, might be interesting to you).

See if it worked.

 

[AMC]

I've never tested G96 but pretty much any lube that meets or exceeds MIL-PRF-63460E should be good to go.
Check out this thread, it shows a lot of popular gun oils and how they compare as far as rust protection. I like this test because it is fairly recent. The guy does test G96 gun treatment and does just as well as breakfree, weaponshield oil and several others. Keep in mind, G96 gun treatment is supposed to be a step down in quality to their Synthetic CLP that meets the military spec. Corrosion X is near the top of the pack, as I expected.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=103924

 

[Pablo]

I've used Gun Butter. An FFL I bought a few higher end guns from gave me some. It's not bad or anything, but since I have so many better or equal lubes around I see no need to buy it. It's Amsoil spray grease and Amsoil MP as my main lubes. Slides I use just a touch of spray grease. It works great, awesome when breaking in new stainless slides. Other smaller moving parts it's MP for the most part. For very small fine parts that are supposed to be essentially dry, I use Amsoil Silicone spray.

EDIT - nice test with the washers!!! Thanks for the link. Man I wish they tested Amsoil MP and HDMP. Are you a member there?

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
For very small fine parts that are supposed to be essentially dry, I use Amsoil Silicone spray.

EDIT - nice test with the washers!!! Thanks for the link. Man I wish they tested Amsoil MP and HDMP. Are you a member there?



Pablo, hey good to hear about gun butter. Heads up though, I have tested several silicone based sprays in corrosion tests and they all fail miserably. Every silicone spray I have tested actually seems to cause rust and the metal treated with it, rusts faster than the controls. I wouldn't use silicone anywhere near guns. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just trying to help out.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: AMC
[

Pablo, hey good to here about gun butter. Heads up though, I have tested several silicone based sprays in corrosion tests and they all fail miserably. Every silicone spray I have tested actually seems to cause rust and the metal treated with it, rusts faster than the controls. I wouldn't use silicone anywhere near guns. Not telling you what to do, just trying to help out.


I would never think of silicone as a rust preventative. I highly doubt bare carbon steel treated with a good silicone spray would rust faster than untreated. I typically use silicone spray for plastic parts, and some internal dry parts like certain firing pins. Works great, nothing to fear. People get all freaked by silicone.

 

[Tempest]

AMC,

I have been using Weapon Shield for several years now and am very happy with the results. No staining or etching to be found. Cleaning becomes very easy after about 3 trips to the range. It's all I use for shooters.

If you like the "regular" Corrosion X, try the Aviation version. Even better, IMHO. The best spray can lube I have found.