Same frames??????

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After seeing in a thread where a member commented that manufacturers are buying frames from a builder (for certain market segment) then putting their own combo of parts on it, I started wondering...

The other day I was in a bike shop (not my usual) and noticed a cro-mo framed Gnarley??? on display and after some close inspection, I found that it looked strikingly like my Schwinn. Now, in another thread I see a Surly with what looks to be the same frame...

Am I imagining things? Do I need my eyes checked?

My bike

Surly
 
Yep, different frames. It's entirely possible they came from the same factory, but no way of telling. Yours looks like it has a little higher-quality tubeset on it.

Just to give you a little more clarity on how it works, frame mfgs in Taiwan and PRC will have a catalog of frames. Some companies will just pick the frame and put parts on it. So, you may see an identical frame being sold by various companies, aside from paint and decals (funny aside, these are normally referred to as "parts hangers"). More often though, the company will ask for either a small change or a sole source agreement (which they'll get). Of course, the mfg will then make a nearly identical frame with some very small changes.

Without a doubt though, the quality will be really similar in most similarly-priced bikes, and the quality will generally be quite good for the price.
 
Okay, so I think you guys are right on the Surly, but I really wished I could find a pic of that other bike.

Originally Posted By: JOD
Yours looks like it has a little higher-quality tubeset on it.


JOD, why is it that you say this?
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay, so I think you guys are right on the Surly, but I really wished I could find a pic of that other bike.

Originally Posted By: JOD
Yours looks like it has a little higher-quality tubeset on it.


JOD, why is it that you say this?


The Pacific frame (yours) uses a Reynolds 520 tube set, made under license by Foundry in Taiwan. The Surly uses an unbranded tube set which is *probably* of a little lower quality. It's still 4130, but the 520 will most likely have higher density, thinner walls and a little lower weight.

That said, I believe the Surly frame is also made in Taiwan vs. PRC, which generally indicates a little higher quality frame. In general, the Taiwanese factories are really, really good at tig welding bicycle frames.
 
Okay, so I think that I've found the bike I was talking about... I had to call the bike shop and ask them the name of it.



Gunnar Bikes The tag on the bike said that it was US made, but would/could they have used the same pattern as what mine was made from? Or am I still way off base?
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Are most of the carbon frame factories in Taiwan, or PRC??


There's no easy answer on that one. 5 years ago, they were almost all Taiwan. It's increasingly moved to China. The more expensive the frame, the more likely it's from Taiwan. That said, it's not unusual that you can have different COO on the exact same model and year of bike. It can vary depending on the product run. You make a deal with the vendor, but the vendors often have mfg facilities in both locations.

In my experience, the factory matters more then the country. The good thing is that all of the major brands use reputable factories--as much for their adherence to delivery schedules as much as quality, to be totally honest about it.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay, so I think that I've found the bike I was talking about... I had to call the bike shop and ask them the name of it.



Gunnar Bikes The tag on the bike said that it was US made, but would/could they have used the same pattern as what mine was made from? Or am I still way off base?


Hey, I have one of those! That's a Gunnar Roadie. I have it as my rain bike, though I raced on it for a season when I didn't have free plastic bike due to sponsor issues... That's a nice frame, made in Wisconsin. The company was started by Richard Schwinn (yes, that Schwinn...). They make some great stuff. Your bike is basically the off-shore ripoff of that bike! Similar geometry, but a little cheaper tube set (the Gunnar frame is about 2 lbs lighter).

The frame alone retails for about $900.00. I think that's a good deal, but it's only a couple hundred less than you paid for your bike. So, it's hard for me to say it's "worth it". Still, I do like the Gunnar quite a bit. One notable difference is that the Gunnar has fender braze-ons. That's a biggie for me, given my location.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay, so I think you guys are right on the Surly, but I really wished I could find a pic of that other bike.

Originally Posted By: JOD
Yours looks like it has a little higher-quality tubeset on it.


JOD, why is it that you say this?


The Pacific frame (yours) uses a Reynolds 520 tube set, made under license by Foundry in Taiwan. The Surly uses an unbranded tube set which is *probably* of a little lower quality. It's still 4130, but the 520 will most likely have higher density, thinner walls and a little lower weight.

That said, I believe the Surly frame is also made in Taiwan vs. PRC, which generally indicates a little higher quality frame. In general, the Taiwanese factories are really, really good at tig welding bicycle frames.


Pacific? Is that a frame style? Also about your comment on TIG welding - You sure got that right! Being a part time TIG welder myself, I look at these frames in wonder! It's one thing to knock a weld like that, but another to do it on every joint of every frame every time!



Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay, so I think that I've found the bike I was talking about... I had to call the bike shop and ask them the name of it.



Gunnar Bikes The tag on the bike said that it was US made, but would/could they have used the same pattern as what mine was made from? Or am I still way off base?


Hey, I have one of those! That's a Gunnar Roadie. I have it as my rain bike, though I raced on it for a season when I didn't have free plastic bike due to sponsor issues... That's a nice frame, made in Wisconsin. The company was started by Richard Schwinn (yes, that Schwinn...). They make some great stuff. Your bike is basically the off-shore ripoff of that bike! Similar geometry, but a little cheaper tube set (the Gunnar frame is about 2 lbs lighter).

The frame alone retails for about $900.00. I think that's a good deal, but it's only a couple hundred less than you paid for your bike. So, it's hard for me to say it's "worth it". Still, I do like the Gunnar quite a bit. One notable difference is that the Gunnar has fender braze-ons. That's a biggie for me, given my location.



Mine has braze-ons too. Can you offer any input as to it's efficiency or performance capability? I know it's no cutting edge carbon bike, but it "seems" sportier/faster than some of the other bikes I've ridden... Maybe I'm just that strong of a rider... Yeah, right. Maybe until I wake up.
 
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