Motor Oils and Auto-Rx

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
May 28, 2002
Messages
2,163
Location
Jacksonville Beach Fl
Want to further clarify the constant oil/application questions for all of you, including new visitors to the board.

This information is on the websites but is difficult for the consumer to readily locate and often adds confusion. I am in the process of editing the websites to make this information readily available.

1. If you use or have used base synthetic oil products or solvent additives in your engine, then drive 750 miles with Auto-Rx in your current oil on your initial application, even if you use a mineral base flush oil for Auto-Rx application.

2. If you have used only a "Dino" oil or "blends" and perhaps additive products, drive 500 miles with Auto-Rx in your current oil on your initial application in your "Dino" oil.
 
Is it OK to leave it in longer?

I my case, I had two relatively sludge-free engines. I currently have 1100 miles on my first treatment on a 1999 GM 3.4 with 45k well-maintained miles. I am using it with 5W-30 Mobil Drive Clean Blend, and a fresh AC Delco "oversized" filter. I figure more miles cannot hurt, as long as the filter is not plugging, right? I plan to change oil in the next few days, so I will not go more than 1200 miles.
 
Your engines by your comments are relatively clean. Based on your statement (oversized filter)you can run 1200 miles, however, check your filter. This longer mileage with Auto-Rx in your host oil would not apply to most so don't make a 'leap of faith' -- change the filter.
 
My mechanic looked at this Auto-RX and said, "You don't need this. All you need is to do is change your oil every five_hundred miles and that will clean your engine"
 
lol change oil every 500 miles? over a period of maybe 2 years. auto rx for 24 bucks vs..umm much more money with oil filter will not be worth it.


haha it makes me laugh. id rather use auto rx. i love to change oil, but every 500 miles is killer.
 
Your mechanic must not have looked to hard, really a misinformed remark. Auto-Rx cost $24.97 and one bottle cleans the majority of engines under 100,000 miles. Do the math and your mechanic is wrong. I don't expect most mechanics to embrace Auto-Rx chemistry, they see it as a threat to their labor and parts profit. It is the consumer my product is targeted for. Changing oil every 500 miles will not keep engine clean. Oil gets dirty true, it never wears out. The additive packages wear out and that's why you change oil. Engine is really an air pump and third party abrasives collect and form on the metal and an oil change does not clean this type contamination.
 
Auto-Rx liqifies all contaminants and suspends them while going to filter. Oil is just a carrier Auto-Rx has no effect on host oil. Please visit
www.auto-rx.com and read link "Independent Field Tests" Sorry did not see your question till now. you might want to vist link on "Emissions" and read those test results done by the state of North Carolina. Mr. Heagy does it suprise you that states with emissions testing have people selling car and truck owners $500.00 worth of hardware to reduce emissions and no guarantee it will work. It is a cottage industry. Auto-Rx is guaranteed to get any vehicle (with no broken engine parts ) through emissions. If not they get full refund. And we do it safely.
 
Yeah, Just checked out the Auto Rx site. Can't find anything about what it is made up of. Not saying I doubt ya Frank, but there are a lot of products that are the ONE'S. But I get a little suspicious when I can't find any tech info on the product.

Also, I think I read before someone asked why not just use synthetic oil to clean the engine. I have seen engines that used synthetic oils their whole life, and trust me you wouldn't need Auto Rx nor any other cleaner. A good oil will do this for you.
 
Hope this post will answer your questions OilMeUp and Mr. Hagy. You need to read the Material Data Safety Sheet which is part of the website at www.auto-rx.com then if you still need more information look up Auto-Rx Patent Number. Mr. Hagy I will have to refer you to Dyson Oil Analysis to explain the test results done by them on various engines with different oils. Perhaps you would have an easier time reading the oil analysis numbers from the data re:1995 Classic Corvette. You will find this under link for Independent Test Data (www.auto-rx.com ). Glad you're not driving a car throwing bad hydrocarbons out of your tailpipe. My interest in cancer causing agents is more personal and, in fact, it is what drove me to formulate a non-hazardous chemistry. Numbers don't lie and Dyson Oil Analysis reputation speaks for itself. Mr.Hagy, OilMeUp, I don't feel I can help you anymore.
Thank you for your interest.
 
quote:

Originally posted by troy_heagy:


MSDS: Doesn't say anything useful. All it says is: "Fatty Acids-Lanolin Esters". This is the same stuff in my Mobil 1. Please explain, why do I need to add this RX if my oil already contains esters?



Because they are different esters. I think Frank has been very helpful to many people on this site, but you guys don't expect him to give away trade secrets do you? His product works, without a doubt, so I wish you guys would stop ragging on it like this. Just because someone cuts open an oil filter and finds nothing, doesn't mean his product isn't working, it just means the engine was clean to begin with! If the engine is dirty inside, his product WILL CLEAN IT! Do a UOA before and after and you will see a difference, I did, even though I ran it in Maxlife, which isn't an effective host for Auto-rx. After my second treatment, this time in Schaeffer Oil, I've now considerably reduced, possibly even totally eliminated, any oil consumption I had. I used to need to add 100ml every 1000km to my car, but since the second treatment I've gone 3000km and haven't needed to add any oil!

So let's put this to rest people, I see a lot of people putting down this product with no real facts to back themselves up. Just because Frank won't give away his secret formula doesn't mean his product doesn't work. Do you expect KFC to give up it's secret formula of eleven herbs and spices too? No! You simply enjoy their chicken and go on with your lives!
smile.gif


[ May 22, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
Guys do a search on Auto-Rx here for more info to help your search for ingredients. You can even access the patent info from links here. The MSDS is a starting point on the Auto-RX website.

Heres an overview; The esters are proprietary and thats all it has in it, esters that clean,have EP characteristics and lubricate. To tell more would violate the secrecy agreement I have to sign for every product I evaluate.

Oil analysis;

Auto-RX is not organo-metallic so the spectro analysis is not what you expect to see, i.e won't look like a motor oil signature. FTIR will have a characteristic bump up in oxidation which is cleaning not breakdown of oil, nitration will decrease as engine seals more effectively. Wear values will drop with use even in small dosages.

When using RX the host oil is not affected and is just a vehicle for the RX to reach the areas to be cleaned.
Micel action is robust meaning it cleans ( solublizes carbon and dirt off metals in engine) then carries away the particles in a protective covering until drained or trapped by filter,these are small enough that no wear occurs unlike other more traditional solvents that use the oil to disperse. Those solvents also thin the oil through chemical shearing of the Molecules unless inhibited somehow. RX does NOT negatively affect host oil at all.

TBN may stabilize as it cleans and reduces the acid generating particles and residue, and rings seal.

Auto-RX effect is residual and slow acting for safety and gentle cleaning. It is heat activated thus the hotter sections get the first cleaning effect.

As far as ANY motor oil cleaning, read this site for comments on that. Oil can lubricate or clean not both without sacrificing one for the other, this is my mantra!

Auto-RX cleans and allows even trashed oil to lubricate clean metal where the real wear occurs !

Unbiased nature of my testing interpretation is the crux of my business, I'm owned by no one or I don't get the next job. I have been hired to interpret 3rd party testing by entities besides Dyson Analysis in evaluating RX and it is a very solid, unique chemistry unlike the variations on a theme we see with the "snake oils".


Hope this is enlightening and all of it has been shared here over the past year or so.

Happy reading !

[ May 22, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by troy_heagy:
Let's flip that around: *I* see a lot of people praising this product with no real facts to back it up.



I've given you my facts, before and after oil analysis, and the fact that my oil consumption has stopped. Many others have shared the same info. What more do you want??
 
quote:

Originally posted by troy_heagy:
[Also, what did I do that was so offensive? I asked questions. What's offensive about that?

Troy

[/QB]

Troy, If I remeber correctly you said, "he's not very helpful is he". Why should Frank tell you every component of Auto-RX? If you are not comfortable with the product don't use it, it's your decision. There are plenty of people here that are happy with the product, so let it rest. -Joe
 
Guys,

I called Frank and discussed with him this confusion issue of how many miles to go with what oil. Obviously it has caused some controversy and if not long enough with certain types of oils it doesn't have the time to accomplish its task. So while discussing it, I asked him, what would it hurt to instead of having separate miles for one type/brand of oil to just set the mileage limit up to the 750 for any and all oils, thus coving the 500miles on normal dino but making it easier and less confusing as to which oils to run longer, just have all applications with any oil to run 750 no matter what. He said that would be an excellent idea as it wont hurt to run 750 miles on dino and by doing this, no matter synth, blend or dino, run the auto rx 750 miles, and now this issue of what oil for what amount of miles is mute. He will be changing his application instructions to reflect this to 750 miles no matter what oil used.

I believe that Terry, Frank and a few others have covered this subject quite well. I have learned more on what is and isn't about auto rx than before.

Mr Troy,
quote:


- What is the chemical that breaks up the sludge?

Are you a chemist? As many people on many sites try to decipher oils by certain aspects such as what base stock is an oil and such, we have time and time again showed where knowing base stock of an oil is not representative to a good oil and even the technical data sheet will not give you the answers to if the oil is better than the other. I've seen where people preach synth's are better but when it came to the real application, we have seen where some full synth's fail miserably in comparison to some blends. This was established by actual oil analysis from a lab and not just an opinion. When looking at any product, obviously you want to be skeptical but also be analytical so, personal opinions tend to interest you, then look at the technical but not to the submicronic level. Look at the technical over all results that are established based on actual use, in this case oil analysis info. There is more than enough to show how this product is working. Stuart Hughs comes to mind, his wear numbers are the lowest seen anywhere and he uses the auto rx in maintenance doses.

- Where is the control group? (i.e. analysis at 800 mile w/o RX) good question. I think that this board supplies many oil analysis without the auto rx, so take your choice as for that part of it. I think though that maybe Frank and Terry should consider showing some of the same engines that are not running the auto rx as some that are. This would help answer that question, but until that happens, you have the answer, there is none that I'm aware of other than what analysis are supplied here on this board, many of which do and do not run Rx, so that can be looked at as a possible way to examine control groups in the mean time.


- What does the analysis in "Field Test Data" mean? I hope you really aren't looking for an answer here. This obviously means they took actual engines, running in normal applications and did analysis watching and monitoring these vehicles being used in normal everyday use.

These should be easy to answer. Nothing offensive about them.

Well, I have nothing more to add, but I believe that the evidence/responses given are all there for you to decide if you want to try it or not. If not enough info is available, then I suggest you don't go with it, as I'm sure he really doesn't want to deal with anyone that is so worried that he'd have to convince you to try it. I think that decision should be based on your personal opinion based on what "limited" info is made available here. I think we all can understand why you'd be skeptical and if you need to know the basic chemistry, I don't think you'll find that out and even if you did, I'd suspect like many of us, it wouldn't serve any purpose in the decision making process.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of gas do or did you use and is made up with oxygenates, and what type and does it have detergents, and what amounts? Is it the base fluid that is burning off and how much sulfur is in the fuel, and how much actual lubricates, but after burning is becoming a acidic carbon by product?...You getting my drift here, do you apply this much effort in every product you use? You may find that sometimes you have to look at the company and their rep more than just the product, and let me add, that with his refund policy, it helps stand behind what he offers, so keep that in mind as well.



 
quote:

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Just out of curiosity, what kind of gas do or did you use and is made up with oxygenates, and what type and does it have detergents, and what amounts?

I see your point, but gas is gas. It's not going to harm my engine, especially since it's heavily regulated by State Inspectors, EPA, and other agencies. In contrast, I know that certain additives like Slick 50 *will* damage the engine. Ditto hundreds of other additives.

I have read (right here on this forum) that certain esters can *damage* an engine. That's why I think that we, the customers, have a right to know which esters are being used in Auto-RX before we pour it in our engines/void the warranty.


Also, you failed to answer my question:

Where can I find the patent for Auto-RX? Do you have a link to it?

Thank you for your time/patience,
Troy
 
Here are the Auto-RX ingredients. Do they look good to you?


Taken from the patent:

"lubricant composition contains between about 2% and 25% (v/v) of the heptanoic acid ester of cyclohexane dimethanol and between about 2% and 20% (v/v) of the pentaerythritol tetraoleate."

"cleaning composition contains between about 2% to 10% by volume of the synthetic ester of lanolin fatty acid."

Saponification Value: between about 115 and 135
Acid Value: less than about 16 (mg KOH/g)
Hydroxyl Value: between about 50 and 75
Moisture: less than 1%
Ash: less than 0.5%
Specific Gravity between about 0.898 and 0.917
Unsaponifiable: about 12%
Pour Point: between about 45F and 55F.
Viscosity: SUS @ 100F. between about 300 and 500
SUS @ 210F. between about 55 and 65
Pin and Vee Value: Not less than about 4000 lbs.
Coefficient of Friction 0.068-0.070
Timken OK Load -LB 50-80 (tested after addition to lubricating fluid)

[ May 23, 2003, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
5-23-03
Thank you Mr.Heagy for "selectively" extracting a
small part of the patent information for Auto-Rx
as you said on an earlier rant you don't know how to read an oil analysis, not suprised you don't know how to read a patent. Since you have opened the door i am going to post just two tests for engines that are part of the patent (something i am sure you were going to do)just to technical right ? By the way your diatribes say your part of a customer base whose ? not mine Mr. Hagy so
it would seem your agenda is just that yours.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top