Techron

[mf150]

How effective is Techron at keeping our engines clean? I've been using nothing but Chevron 91 (highest we can get in Cali.) exclusively for teh BTU count, but how effective is their additive cleaner, Techron? Anyone done a study/analysis?

Thanks

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

quote:

---

The Techron additive should only be used a maximum of twice per oil change but that is more frequently than is usually necessary. I personally make a religion of using only Chevron Super Unleaded fuel (for low sulphur content and ongoing low-dosage levels of Techron) and adding one bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner to the second-to-last tank of fuel before every oil change.

---

On the contrary, he's missing quite a few points... First, sulphur has a good side and bad side, good side, it acts as a lubricant, bad side it leaves an acidic residue which ends up as carbon. To only use techron just a limited amount such as he is saying, you are missing the point of lubrication. Techron as well neutra and lucas fuel additives have lubrication properties in their additive and I know that lucas and neutra 131 actually neutralizes the sulphuric acid by product so not to leave carbon residue and if techron does, it too would affect it the same, so when this happens you need to have some sort of lubrication to replace the sulphur. I did a little video on here http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000477 and also on my oil shearing page http://bobistheoilguy.com/videos.html I have the acid test for fuel additives.

 

[68redlines73]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quattro Pete:
Also, if you use Chevron gas, it already contains some Techron in it, so I wouldn't bother throwing more of it in your gas tank.

---

Au contraire! What several of the high performance OEMs have found is the added concentation of Techron is helpful, dare I say, necessary to keep the engine running as efficiently as when it was first assembled.

 

[68redlines73]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quattro Pete:
I may be wrong, but I don't think Techron's purpose is to keep your enigne clean, per se. It's a fuel system cleaner, rather.

---

PS - You are correct. Techron is a fuel system cleaner. I recommend using a high quality engine oil to keep an engine clean.

 

[68redlines73]

I think good reference points are comments such as this:

Chevron fuel, Techron, and fuel additives

• BMW is now recommending Chevron gasoline for their new vehicles. BMW recommends Chevron fuel specifically because of the Techron fuel additive that Chevron supplies. This additive substantially reduces the formation of deposits in the injection system and valvetrain and is supplied in a preventative concentration. BMW recommends an additional fuel system cleaning additive to be used periodically in our vehicles. Three products are warranty-approved: BMW's own fuel system cleaner, Chevron Techron, and Redline SI-1. These products are packaged in a small bottle and are added to a tank of fuel during filling. Be sure to follow the recommended procedures for use specific to the product you decide on. My personal choice is the Techron product, based primarily upon my own experience of its' effectiveness and reasonable cost. I have also used and liked the Redline SI-1 product but am slightly offended by its' high price and limited availability. The BMW product is even more expensive. The Techron additive should only be used a maximum of twice per oil change but that is more frequently than is usually necessary. I personally make a religion of using only Chevron Super Unleaded fuel (for low sulphur content and ongoing low-dosage levels of Techron) and adding one bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner to the second-to-last tank of fuel before every oil change.

Source: This link.

There are numerous other OEMs that use Techron (in their own packages) to keep their respective autos running smoothly.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I may be wrong, but I don't think Techron's purpose is to keep your enigne clean, per se. It's a fuel system cleaner, rather.

For cleaning engines, there are other products out there, like Auto-RX for example.

Also, if you use Chevron gas, it already contains some Techron in it, so I wouldn't bother throwing more of it in your gas tank.

 

[mf150]

Thank you for the replies. As some of you caught, I was talking about a fuel system cleaner...the effectivness of Techron in the pump gas (specifically) for keeping deposits down. I,too, in addition have used the SI-1 Red Line product with much happiness. Their product is less expensive than Techron by about three dollars a bottle. As far as the engine goes, I've been running Red Line 10W-30 and D4 ATF in the tranny. I'm hoping that this (Red Line products w/ Techron enriched fuel)is the best combination for keeping the internals of my vehicle CLEAN!

Thanks again for the replies! This is a cool site!!!

 

[Drstressor]

Couple of points here guys, FWIW:

1. Elemental sulfur is not a lubricant. The processes used to remove sulfur from fuels also removes or chemically convert aromatic compounds, which are lubricants. Low sulfur fuels thus has less lubricity than higher sulfur fuels. However, ALL low sulfur engine fuels contain small amounts of relatively inexpensive additives that restore the lubricity to proscribed levels. Sulfur doesn't form soot. Soot is incompletely burned hydrocarbon. The high level of aromatics and other low energy compounds in high sulfur fuel is responsible for soot formation. Sulfur does promote acid formation in the presence of oxygen and water. This leads to TBN depletion and increased corrosion.

2. Fuel lubricity is more relevant to diesel fuel than gasoline. Some types of diesel injector pumps are lubricated only by the fuel rather than crankcase oil. Also diesel injectors operate under much higher pressures than gas engine injectors.

3. Gasoline engine injectors most often fail because of deposits or leaky seals, not the lack of sufficient fuel lubricity.

4. Compounds such as polyether amines (Techron) are detergents, not lubricants. The apparent differences between fuel additive "lubricity" in Bob's test is a reflection of the carrier fluid into which the detergents are dissolved. This is not to suggest that products that advertise improved fuel lubricity do not do what they say they do.

5. Interestingly, compounds added to commercial gasoline can contribute to upper cylinder deposits. When unleaded gas was first required back in the 70's, a phenomenon called octane creep was prevalent. Detergent additives that kept carburetors and fuel injectors clean produced unacceptable levels of valve and upper cylinder deposits. Adding more detergent seemed to solve the valve deposit problem, but the same compounds would form deposits in the upper cylinder areas. These "hot spots" would cause pre-ignition that would go away only if higher octane fuel was used as the engine aged. Techron is one of the few fuel additive that can prevent deposits in the fuel system, valves, and upper cylinder areas. At high doses, it can scavenge existing deposits from those areas as well.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Drstressor:
Couple of points here guys, FWIW:
.....
2. Fuel lubricity is more relevant to diesel fuel than gasoline. Some types of diesel injector pumps are lubricated only by the fuel rather than crankcase oil. Also diesel injectors operate under much higher pressures than gas engine injectors.
.....

---

The fuel pumping part of a diesel injection pump is only lubed by fuel. The mechanical actuation part of the pump is lubed by oil.

The extremely high pressures in the diesel injection system create the requirement for extremely fine clearances. If the clearance is too big, the leakage past the pump plunger will be such that the pressure doesn't develop...generally there's no seal that can withstand the pressure.


Ken

 

[Drstressor]

I agree.

 

[mf150]

This is cool! Keep it comming!

 

[Mystic]

You should see the videos that BOBISTHEOILGUY did. Neutra, Techron, and Lucas seemed to perform about the same in the test tube tests, not only providing cleaning but also lubrication.

However, in my own personal experience, Neutra has worked better as a fuel system cleaner than Techron. I have noticed better fuel mileage and the car is running good. I have ordered another bottle.

 

[segfault]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Drstressor:
5. Interestingly, compounds added to commercial gasoline can contribute to upper cylinder deposits. When unleaded gas was first required back in the 70's, a phenomenon called octane creep was prevalent. Detergent additives that kept carburetors and fuel injectors clean produced unacceptable levels of valve and upper cylinder deposits. Adding more detergent seemed to solve the valve deposit problem, but the same compounds would form deposits in the upper cylinder areas. These "hot spots" would cause pre-ignition that would go away only if higher octane fuel was used as the engine aged. Techron is one of the few fuel additive that can prevent deposits in the fuel system, valves, and upper cylinder areas. At high doses, it can scavenge existing deposits from those areas as well.

---

Doesn't octane creep still happen today? I have heard numerous anecdotal reports of cars becoming "addicted" to premium fuel.

 

[Drstressor]

Sure, it's still a problem but nothing like in the old days. The gasoline manufacturers have pretty well figured out the right additive chemistries for deposit control and upper cylinder lubrication. You don't see as many engines needing valve jobs as in the old days. But short trips and running fuel containing alcohol (winter blends)can still cause deposit problems. Since many engines now have knock sensors, the effect is lower power rather than pre-ignition.

Chevron advertises it's fuel as being the best available for deposit control, which also affects emissions. Their highest octane grade is also supposed to be more heavily treated with Techron. This additive has been around for over 20 years old, so it should be off patent. I suspect most other brands of gasoline may also contain Techron or related compounds.

I hate testimonials, but I'll admit that I use Chevron products. Honda outboard motors have a history of upper cylinder deposits causing valves to stick (that's a lot of deposits!). This probably has a lot to do with running stale fuel. Many Honda dealers marine dealers recommend running Chevron midgrade or better in these engines to minimize the problem. I've had good luck with Chevron fuel in this application (over 1000 hr on one engine). But Chevron is the most expensive fuel available in my area, so I use the cheapest gas available in my cars and run a can of Techron concentrate through about every 3-4000 miles. My '90 Accord is operated exclusively for short commutes and it still has factory spec compression, no pre-ignition, and a quite valve train once warmed up.

 

[Lexmexico]

Most of you do not have the LUXURY of living in Mexico. Where I live, Mexico City, foreigners cannot drive their cars one day out of the 5 working days due to pollution. Everyone with a Mexican plate can submit their car for emissions testings and get one of three types of stickers: Cero-drive any day, Uno-drive every day but one based on the last digit of your license plate (applies to all foreign-plated cars), Dos-cannot drive two days out of the week based on the digit and color of your sticker.

I have had friends get Uno and Dos. Gave them some Techron, and they passed with flying colors.

Moreover, Mexican Premium gas is awful. True, it is imported from the U.S. due to poor Mexican refining, but the transportation tankers and the gas stations themselves, Pemex, never clean their tanks sufficiently. Hence, poor little engine. I buy Techron at Costco and that takes care of the problem easily.

Take it from me, you have no idea what a godsend Techron is. Too bad Pemex does not use it as an additive.

 

[kev99sl]

Just as an aside, there are at least a few of us here who have no access to Chevron gas. That's right: there are no Chevron stations anywhere near where I work or live. I stumbled on one when I was driving somewhere in the wilds of Indiana once, but haven't seen any around Chicago since I was a little kid. The only brands of gas prevalent around here are Shell, Mobil, and BP (Amoco). Lately, Citgo has been making inroads, there's a smattering of Marathon stations, a few more Clark stations, and of course Speedway and Super America.

It would be FANTASTIC if someone could confirm whether Techron, or the same mix of chemicals under a different name, is used in, say, Shell, Mobil, or BP gas.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Now that you've brought up the possibility that Techron or something similar may be in other gasolines besides Chevron, this brings up the issue of gasolines in general. Over the years I've noticed that my car just plain seems to prefer certain brands, and I think that the preference is related to additive packages. Here is an informal listing of "good" gasolines, in my opinion.

By the way, I always run 93 octane, based on the "cleaner fuel" theory--remember the Amoco Ultimate commercial a few years ago that showed the beaker full of black gunk that regular gas has in it that gives the amber color? I was doing this long before the Amoco commercial, as my old Festiva (bought new in '88) simply did not like regular. I got 350,000 miles out of that car and one experienced mechanic told me that he thought running the higher octane made a difference (cleanliness). The old thing loved Amoco Ultimate: it ran better and seemed to gain a few hp, surprisingly enough. And with less than 60 hp on tap, a couple extra horses made a difference. Even with my '97 Escort wagon I see differences in how this more powerful car runs and drives depending on the fuel I use.

Anyway, here's the good gas list in my order of preference:
Sunoco (no stations really close to me, but I'm on the road a lot and have used its 93 octane many times with excellent results)
Phillips 66 (rare here, but one station is relatively close)
Chevron
Texaco
Amoco (had a bad tankful of Ultimate last year, killed an O2 sensor, so I've been cautious since)
Pennzoil (tried it one time out of my area; good results)

Here's my "iffy" gas list. I'll use these if nothing else is available. Again, my opinion.
Citgo
Shell (though Shell should now be the same as Texaco, it isn't always around here)

Here's my list of fuels that I avoid at all costs. Again, my opinion. Even if running on fumes, I'll keep driving to avoid their use:
Exxon (had more than one bad tank from different stations, and even on a good day my cars haven't cared for its premium)
Mobil (same fuel as Exxon anyway)
Convenience store brands (certain of these, especially one chain based in Pennsylvania, have a really bad reputation)

The question I have is how the additive packages might have enhanced--or not--the fuel. And note that Chevron is on my good list. Your comments would be interesting.

 

[Raptor6]

Wouldn't know...I've only used Chevron in my car since I've had her. I will occasionally throw in some Techron cleaner for kicks even though I get small doses in the regular fill-ups.

I've used maybe 4-5 fuel system cleaners (RedLine & Chevron) in the last 40,000 miles. I usually dump it in and use the tank up right before an oil change. I really don't see/feel any differences...maybe the fuel system is already clean?

Either way, Chevron is good stuff. I do know my mother's SL2 Saturn can't use winter-formula Arco...

[ May 12, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Raptor6 ]

 

[Rick in PA]

Just got a couple of cans of Techron. They had a special cupon on them good for a $2 rebate or a free cap. I wonder what my free cap will look like?

Lexmexico, thanks for the info on Mexico City. It's always interesting to get an international perspective.

[ May 12, 2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Rick in PA ]

 

[MNgopher]

Comparing gasoline brands can be a tricky subject. Depending on where you live, your gasoline may have been refined at a refinery owned by the name brand or been refined at the same place as all the other gasoline in the area. Gasoline is a "fungible" product, meaning that it doesn't matter what refinery it came from, but so long as it meets certain minimum standards, its all the same.

Gasoline retail outlets have two choices: Become branded, meaning affiliated with a brand and sell gas containing some additional additive to make it "unique" (as well as getting the beni of being associated with a name brand), or buy unbranded gasoline that meets minimum standards (kind of like the SL rating on motor oil - its only a minimum!)

When buying branded gasoline, the additives that make it unique are added at the rack before shipping to retailers.

With all that being said, when you buy a particular brand, who knows where it came from.

In this market, 90+% of our gas comes from one of four refineries. One is Tesoro in Mandan, North Dakota (formerly an Amoco refinery), Murphy Oil in Superior, Wisconsin (Retail brands include Spur and Wal-Mart), Marathon Ashland in St. Paul Park, Minnesota (Owners of Speedway Superamerica and Marathon brands), and Flint Hills Resources of Rosemount, Minnesota, who really aren't affiliated with any one brand name, except for Holiday convenince stores and their Blue Planet Low Sulphur gasoline.

Of the major brands here, a few ties become evident:

All Amoco, BP, and Tesoro gasoline comes from Mandan, ND. This is the only separate distribution system from the rest of the brands.

Holiday gasoline comes from Flint Hills, since the low sulphur fuel is an exclusive product.

Superamerica and Marathon stores obviously get gasoline from Marathon Ashland.

After that, who knows where what brand is refined. It's all a mish mash at that point.

So, in this market, the good (above average gas mileage, no hard starts pinging or knocking), the OK (OK in 1 or 2 of my fleet, bad in the others), the ugly (bad in all - knocks, pings, hard starts, low fuel mileage), and the don't know (haven't bought): ( Numbers are Percentages that are +/- from the overall average fuel mileage)

Good:
Tesoro +5
Phillips 66 +4.5
Citgo (replaced 76 in this market)+3
Amoco (being converted to BP's)+4

The OK:
Superamerica (The 800lb gorrilla) +1
Shell (old Texaco's)+0.5
Conoco -1.5
Holiday -2

The Bad:
Marathon -9
Texaco (All becoming Shell) -7
Mobil -6
Kwik Trip -9

Unknown:
Sinclair
Cenex
Spur

Thats based on two years of meticulous record keeping!

To me, yes there are a lot of variables at work here, but I have noted a difference between some brands. Is that the additives or different refinery? Tough to say! For Tesoro and Amoco, it may be the different refinery due to the different distrobution network than all the rest.

[ May 13, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]