Where?
Engine cleaning oil flush - read this great article.
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Oh, sorry. So it's a SAE 20 oil (esters). And nothing else.
Troy
Huh?quote:
Originally posted by troy_heagy:
Odd. If the Auto-RX was doing it's job, shouldn't the Si and Ca levels be highly increased?
Troy
Not quite nothing else but yes esters are the majority. You should research their functionality.
The blend of esters in Auto-RX are the active cleaning ingredient. Your comment "and nothing else" is an oversimplification, because you could take a random blend of esters which equated to "a SAE 20 oil" [sic] and they would produce different results because they do not have the same properties as Auto-RX when placed in an engine.
[ May 22, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Troy, you have a response on the motoroil and rx thread that I think you should read.
Cheeks I am with you. I am going to put on welding shield and watch the sparks fly.
This is representive of why you use Auto-Rx
Rx for Your Motor Oil
by **** Zakrzewski ©2000-2002
Contamination in your motor oil can leave you stranded along the side of the road with serious or terminal damage to your engine. Both types of damage will make a big dent in the wallet, not to mention the inconvenience. It is therefore a good idea to identify the presence of these contaminants as early as possible to avoid an unwanted roadside rest.
There are four categories for contamination/debris? metallic, nonmetallic, water and gasoline. Under normal conditions all moving parts run on a thin film of oil. This includes rings, pistons, rod bearings, main bearings, cams, lifters, valves, etc. But if the engine becomes starved for oil, metal to metal contact (asperity contact) occurs which results in abrasive wear and loose metallic debris. Abrasive wear will spread quickly when metallic debris is carried by the lubricating oil to other bearing surfaces. Note that the debris can and will by-pass your oil filter unless you have blocked the by-pass as I suggested in a previous article.
Oil starvation can occur in several ways. It can occur when normal wear material (mostly nonmetallic babbit bearing material) collects in oil galleys like cholesterol in your arteries and restricts the flow of oil to critical areas. The wear will also result in a loss of oil pressure that will further reduce the flow of oil. This is a self-destruct cycle where normal wear and deposits reduce lubrication to bearing surfaces, which ultimately causes serious abrasive wear.
Abrasive wear can also occur when the lubricating ability of oil is reduced with the presence of water and/or gasoline. This is a different form of oil starvation. Most common means for water to enter the lubricating oil is from leaks at the gasket interface between the intake manifold and the cylinder heads and between the cylinder heads and the engine block. Leakage can also occur from internal cracks in the engine block and heads. Gasoline can find its way into the lubricating oil because of internal leakage in the carburetor. The gasoline leaks first into the cylinders, past the rings then into the crankcase.
We can conclude that contamination in your motor oil is a bad thing and like your own blood needs to be checked annually (at a minimum) for the unwanted stuff. This will allow you to fix the problem before the unthinkable occurs. The following are some low cost/no cost tests you can make in the garage.
Prepare a sample of motor oil:
A good place to get your sample is the oil filter after two or three thousand miles of driving. I cut the can off the filter cup with a filter cutter from Speedway. Cut the filter while holding the open end upward. See Photo #1. Continuing to hold the open end of the can upward, remove the filter element and associated hardware. Don?t use a hacksaw to cut the filter, you?ll contaminate your oil sample with metal chips from the saw.
Photo #1
Test for metallic particles:
This test is very simple. Just swish a clean magnet around in the oil for a minute or two coming as close as you can to the bottom of the filter cup. The ideal is no detectable amount of metallic particles. A very small amount of very small particles might be considered normal, particularly for a new engine, but I would recommend repeating the test at the next oil change to make sure the condition in not continuing or getting worse. A significant amount of metallic particles on the magnet is an indication of serious engine damage. I would drop the oil pan and inspect all the bearing journals and check valve lift to identify the source of the metallic particles. See Photo #2.
Photo #2
Test for nonmetallic particles:
After conducting the first test for metallic particles, pour the remaining oil from the filter cup into a small clean container. Allow oil to drain from the filter cup for a couple minutes. The remaining residue in the cup is nonmetallic particles. This nonmetallic debris (if any) is composed mostly of babbit bearing material from bearing inserts. If you were seeing a significant amount of nonmetallic debris, I would pull the oil pan and inspect the bearing journals for wear. If you have also noted a decrease in oil pressure, you are in an advanced stage of wear and I would inspect for wear sooner rather than later.
Photo #3
Test for water/antifreeze:
To test for water you?ll need a hot plate or skillet. Heat the skillet or hot plates, shake the sample, then take a few drops of oil and pour it onto the hot surface. If you hear a sizzle, you have water in your oil. See Photo #4. Warning: Please wear safety glasses while performing this test.
You can confirm water is leaking into your oil with a pressure check of your coolant system. Failure of the system to maintain pressure with no external signs of leakage is a good verification of an internal leak.
Photo #4
Test for gasoline:
The first test for gasoline in motor oil is a smell test. Gasoline has a very unique odor, which should be readily identifiable.
Another test for the presence of gasoline is to place a small amount of oil from your sample into a small metal container like the lid of a jelly jar and try to light it. The presence of gasoline in your oil will reduce the flash point of oil (the point at which it will burn). I would suggest a fireplace match, which is about 8 to 10 inches long. If you see a flame, you have gasoline in your oil. See Photo #5. Warning: Please wear safety glasses while performing this test.
Photo #5
A third test to confirm the likelihood of gasoline in your oil is a check of fuel pressure between the fuel pump and carburetor after the engine is shut off. I have a pressure gage in the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel pressure drops off rapidly after engine shutdown and there are no external leaks, the carburetor is leaking internally allowing gasoline to enter the cylinders and subsequently the crankcase. See Photo #6.
A fourth test is the "Standard Test Method for Gasoline Diluent in Used Gasoline Engine Oils by Distillation". This method is used by lubrication laboratories and requires a special apparatus. Reference ASTM Designation: D 322.
Photo #6
Test results:
Hopefully you find no contaminants in your oil and can go away feeling confident that all is well. But just like your annual physical, if the doctor finds a problem, you can minimize the damage by taking care of it as soon as possible.
I would like to give a special thanks to John Fantin who assisted me in the development of this article.
**** Z
http://www.streetrodstuff.com
**** Z - CEO
Streetrod Stuff, Inc.
[ May 22, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
Rx for Your Motor Oil
by **** Zakrzewski ©2000-2002
Contamination in your motor oil can leave you stranded along the side of the road with serious or terminal damage to your engine. Both types of damage will make a big dent in the wallet, not to mention the inconvenience. It is therefore a good idea to identify the presence of these contaminants as early as possible to avoid an unwanted roadside rest.
There are four categories for contamination/debris? metallic, nonmetallic, water and gasoline. Under normal conditions all moving parts run on a thin film of oil. This includes rings, pistons, rod bearings, main bearings, cams, lifters, valves, etc. But if the engine becomes starved for oil, metal to metal contact (asperity contact) occurs which results in abrasive wear and loose metallic debris. Abrasive wear will spread quickly when metallic debris is carried by the lubricating oil to other bearing surfaces. Note that the debris can and will by-pass your oil filter unless you have blocked the by-pass as I suggested in a previous article.
Oil starvation can occur in several ways. It can occur when normal wear material (mostly nonmetallic babbit bearing material) collects in oil galleys like cholesterol in your arteries and restricts the flow of oil to critical areas. The wear will also result in a loss of oil pressure that will further reduce the flow of oil. This is a self-destruct cycle where normal wear and deposits reduce lubrication to bearing surfaces, which ultimately causes serious abrasive wear.
Abrasive wear can also occur when the lubricating ability of oil is reduced with the presence of water and/or gasoline. This is a different form of oil starvation. Most common means for water to enter the lubricating oil is from leaks at the gasket interface between the intake manifold and the cylinder heads and between the cylinder heads and the engine block. Leakage can also occur from internal cracks in the engine block and heads. Gasoline can find its way into the lubricating oil because of internal leakage in the carburetor. The gasoline leaks first into the cylinders, past the rings then into the crankcase.
We can conclude that contamination in your motor oil is a bad thing and like your own blood needs to be checked annually (at a minimum) for the unwanted stuff. This will allow you to fix the problem before the unthinkable occurs. The following are some low cost/no cost tests you can make in the garage.
Prepare a sample of motor oil:
A good place to get your sample is the oil filter after two or three thousand miles of driving. I cut the can off the filter cup with a filter cutter from Speedway. Cut the filter while holding the open end upward. See Photo #1. Continuing to hold the open end of the can upward, remove the filter element and associated hardware. Don?t use a hacksaw to cut the filter, you?ll contaminate your oil sample with metal chips from the saw.
Photo #1
Test for metallic particles:
This test is very simple. Just swish a clean magnet around in the oil for a minute or two coming as close as you can to the bottom of the filter cup. The ideal is no detectable amount of metallic particles. A very small amount of very small particles might be considered normal, particularly for a new engine, but I would recommend repeating the test at the next oil change to make sure the condition in not continuing or getting worse. A significant amount of metallic particles on the magnet is an indication of serious engine damage. I would drop the oil pan and inspect all the bearing journals and check valve lift to identify the source of the metallic particles. See Photo #2.
Photo #2
Test for nonmetallic particles:
After conducting the first test for metallic particles, pour the remaining oil from the filter cup into a small clean container. Allow oil to drain from the filter cup for a couple minutes. The remaining residue in the cup is nonmetallic particles. This nonmetallic debris (if any) is composed mostly of babbit bearing material from bearing inserts. If you were seeing a significant amount of nonmetallic debris, I would pull the oil pan and inspect the bearing journals for wear. If you have also noted a decrease in oil pressure, you are in an advanced stage of wear and I would inspect for wear sooner rather than later.
Photo #3
Test for water/antifreeze:
To test for water you?ll need a hot plate or skillet. Heat the skillet or hot plates, shake the sample, then take a few drops of oil and pour it onto the hot surface. If you hear a sizzle, you have water in your oil. See Photo #4. Warning: Please wear safety glasses while performing this test.
You can confirm water is leaking into your oil with a pressure check of your coolant system. Failure of the system to maintain pressure with no external signs of leakage is a good verification of an internal leak.
Photo #4
Test for gasoline:
The first test for gasoline in motor oil is a smell test. Gasoline has a very unique odor, which should be readily identifiable.
Another test for the presence of gasoline is to place a small amount of oil from your sample into a small metal container like the lid of a jelly jar and try to light it. The presence of gasoline in your oil will reduce the flash point of oil (the point at which it will burn). I would suggest a fireplace match, which is about 8 to 10 inches long. If you see a flame, you have gasoline in your oil. See Photo #5. Warning: Please wear safety glasses while performing this test.
Photo #5
A third test to confirm the likelihood of gasoline in your oil is a check of fuel pressure between the fuel pump and carburetor after the engine is shut off. I have a pressure gage in the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel pressure drops off rapidly after engine shutdown and there are no external leaks, the carburetor is leaking internally allowing gasoline to enter the cylinders and subsequently the crankcase. See Photo #6.
A fourth test is the "Standard Test Method for Gasoline Diluent in Used Gasoline Engine Oils by Distillation". This method is used by lubrication laboratories and requires a special apparatus. Reference ASTM Designation: D 322.
Photo #6
Test results:
Hopefully you find no contaminants in your oil and can go away feeling confident that all is well. But just like your annual physical, if the doctor finds a problem, you can minimize the damage by taking care of it as soon as possible.
I would like to give a special thanks to John Fantin who assisted me in the development of this article.
**** Z
http://www.streetrodstuff.com
**** Z - CEO
Streetrod Stuff, Inc.
[ May 22, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
Uh oh you just detonated my Aries temper...but as according to my anger management i will limit the scope of my response
The following in my honest assesment are valid Auto Services followed by a quick summary of my reasoning:
A)Coolant Exchange Machines:
-instead of emptying just the radiator, the process purges the block, heater core and radiator.
-yes, if you have mechanical skill you can disconnect the coolant lines yourself, run the engine and purge most fluid.
B)ATF Exchange Machines:
-instead of the conventional drain the 4-5qts from the pan you purge more than 90% or 12 qts from the system. The old method simply contaminated the new 4qts ATF to the pre-existing factory stuff.
-similar to the above, if your apt you can change your own filter, disconnect the ATF cooler lines run the engine and purge the old fluid.
C)MOTORVAC fuel system cleaner:
This service is also effective for cleaning the injectors, combustion chamber and rings. In fact, if your mechanic will do it for free get an emmission read out of the exhaust before and after the service. On my parents Olds 93 w/the 3800 NOx decreased from some 20%.
The machines? I concede that in so far only Auto-RX and Neutra have proved themselves to be gentle and effective engine cleaners.
End of Post-
The following in my honest assesment are valid Auto Services followed by a quick summary of my reasoning:
A)Coolant Exchange Machines:
-instead of emptying just the radiator, the process purges the block, heater core and radiator.
-yes, if you have mechanical skill you can disconnect the coolant lines yourself, run the engine and purge most fluid.
B)ATF Exchange Machines:
-instead of the conventional drain the 4-5qts from the pan you purge more than 90% or 12 qts from the system. The old method simply contaminated the new 4qts ATF to the pre-existing factory stuff.
-similar to the above, if your apt you can change your own filter, disconnect the ATF cooler lines run the engine and purge the old fluid.
C)MOTORVAC fuel system cleaner:
This service is also effective for cleaning the injectors, combustion chamber and rings. In fact, if your mechanic will do it for free get an emmission read out of the exhaust before and after the service. On my parents Olds 93 w/the 3800 NOx decreased from some 20%.
The machines? I concede that in so far only Auto-RX and Neutra have proved themselves to be gentle and effective engine cleaners.
End of Post-
Yes, there valid used for flushing machines. As in the transmission flushing, it is just that all the fluid is being changed (which does not happen upon pan drop). I don't believe any solvent is used...just an exchange of fluid...
The power steering pump flush may also be valid...if it indeed is able to exchange the fluid.
There are times hen you should get your radiator (when it has been neglected and things get clogged)...
My favorite part is when the Oil Change guy says "Your oil is dirty." Well, yeah, it's been doing its job...and that's why I'm here!!
The power steering pump flush may also be valid...if it indeed is able to exchange the fluid.
There are times hen you should get your radiator (when it has been neglected and things get clogged)...
My favorite part is when the Oil Change guy says "Your oil is dirty." Well, yeah, it's been doing its job...and that's why I'm here!!
Never done it on a car, but on our lawn tractor, you can drain the radiator and block (which also drains the expansion tank), fill with tap water, then run the engine. Repeat once, and refill with coolant & distilled water. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a "flush," but on the second drain, the water only has a faint greenish tint.
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