Engine cleaning oil flush - read this great article.

dagmando · Apr 13, 2003

http://www.motorminute.com/Service/Bonehead.pdf

This article is a perfect summary to what I have always been say about not using oil additive and engine cleaners. Who are these experts on this board that are pushing these engine cleaners like Auto-RX and Neutra and such and then claiming these unbelievable results? These are companies with good sales literature that goes out to their people convincing them this is good and then those people come to boards like this raving the quality of different products based on some literature thet was sent to them and how much better their engine runs.
I could not think of anything worse than loose "sluge", that the Auto-RX type cleaners are claimng to remove, floating around the engine. Remember, before any oil goes through the oil filter, it goes through the oil pump pick-up which has a screen that blocks larger things, such as thick "sludge" from going into the filter. Like an air filter, it will eventually clog up when this "sludge" is suddenly removed at once. Just read the article before buying any of the product, other then oil, people are recommending.

[ April 14, 2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: dagmando ]

cheeks · Apr 13, 2003

Hoooooo boy....think I'll just sit back, pop a cold one, and watch the sparks fly.

digitaldrifter91 · Apr 13, 2003

...humm world war 4. or should i say an early 4th of July. ill TRY and keep my mouth shut.

Patman · Apr 13, 2003

What you are saying is all the more reason for using a product like Auto-rx! It does not dislodge large chunks of sludge at all, but slowly liquifies the sludge and safely carries it off to the oil filter a little bit at a time.

It's the harsh solvent based "ten minute" flushes we need to worry about, not Auto-rx.

mormit · Apr 13, 2003

I am not pushing either of the two popular engine cleaners that are often mentioned on this board but have had excellent results with Neutra in an 18 year old engine (Volvo at 239,000mi).

See my oil analysis results: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000418

Neutra and Auto-Rx are not like the quick flush junk the oil change places push. They are best for the home do-it-yourselfer for cleaning up an old high mileage engine or some of the modern sludge producing engines.

Spector · Apr 13, 2003

Ha, I concur with the article's conclusion etc., only use as a last resort or unique circumstances. And, as with any process or additive, wait until you warranty is over as it is not worth the risk unless you are willing to accept the risk of denial.

However, even dealers are pushing this flush, at least the local Toyota dealer is. A true moneymaker.
I don't think this is an attack on Rx or Neutra etc

Eiron · Apr 13, 2003

Very nice.

Lots of contradictory "facts" in that piece.

Did the author get burned by one of these scams?

I don't recall anyone here actively promoting this type of process. I think it's simply another example of "buyer beware." I don't go to Jiffy-Lube-type, Firestone-type, Midas-type, etc, places at all anymore because of the unending stream of "helpful services" I don't want or need.

3 Mad Ponchos · Apr 13, 2003

In one paragraph the article talks about how engine flushes can't really dislodge sludge because the solvent doesn't go where the sludge is. In another paragraph it talks about how dislodged sludge will clog up other areas of the engine. Can't have it both ways!

Cheers, 3MP

Spector · Apr 14, 2003

Coolant flushes have been around for ever. Different scenario, no filters or screens involved and if crap dislodged it is unlikely to cause a problem and worst scenario is overheating but I have never heard of a coolant flush causing overheating unless it somehow damaged the thermostat or plugged up a thermostat.

Mystic · Apr 14, 2003

I can only speak from my own experience, and from my experience Auto-RX works! Some cars apparently have sludge problems (some Toyotas, some Saturns, according to some people). My Saturn definitely had some sludge in it, inspite of 3000 mile oil changes. After the first treatment, that fist oil filter definitely had some sludge in it! People who have problem cars and trucks need something that works. In the article that is being discussed, they talk about a machine that is used to clean an engine of sludge. At my new car dealership, they have a machine called the EnviroLution Engine Life-Guard System. It is supposed to pump high detergent oil at high pressure into an engine to clean out sludge. How does it compare to the machine discussed in the article?

Frank · Apr 14, 2003

The article you refer to in your comments is about engine flushes (not cleansing) and automated
fluid exchange machinery I am a person who
persevered against many obstacles to bring new
type technology to the automotive industry.My
reward has been overwhelming support from proven results of my customers and finally a US Patent. My background includes engineering and a passion for safe chemistry. I already can guess your background.No company on this board month after month could exist if its product did not perfrom as represented.This board has experts who contribute, maybe you should read there posts.
Thanks for your singular enlightenment.

greencrew · Apr 14, 2003

dagmando, good article, but I have completely missed your point here. What does this 15 minute flush machine have to do with Auto-RX or neutra?

Are we not talking comparing two completely different things? You can take plain oil and drive a vehicle 50 miles a day and the hot oil will clean the engine and it will run better.

I saw that 20 years ago when my Dad's job was transfered and when he asked the family about moving we said: "Go ahead, but do pleas visit us on the weekends." He decided to commute.

If you extend this deductive logic could we not also question the claim that hot oil can clean an engine, or did I just plain miss the point?

Frank · Apr 14, 2003

"Bilstein Engine Flush"
is all solvent pumped into engine under pressure.
Your car is running in neutral while procedure takes place(about an hour )profitable since solvents used are under $2.00 and machine is amortized over every treatment Neutra is a good solvent product. Don't let poster's enthusiasm about re: Engine Additives etc confuse you. Article is about oil flush. Not Auto-Rx or Neutra type products.

Drew99GT · Apr 14, 2003

Based soley on the used oil analysis reports of engines run with auto-rx, I trust it completly. These results weren't furnished by the manufacturer, but by customers like myself.

[ April 14, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]

Ken2 · Apr 14, 2003

dagmando

Thank you for posting that article. The local Ford dealer even had a reader board outside his shop promoting $69.95 power steering flushes!

That said, I do not agree with your conclusions. Here's my experience with Auto-Rx...a friend has an old, beat Dodge Caravan V6 with about 140k, and she just spend too much money on a transmission job. This engine had noisy lifters, didn't run great, and was black inside & out. She'd been getting 3k-4k oil changes at a good local independent full service shop. I added a bottle of Auto-Rx and a new filter. She drove 500-600 miles and got an oil change according to the sticky note I stuck to her dash. The mechanic said that she shouldn't have let me put the cleaner in the engine, but too late now to stop me. A month or so later, she was in the same shop getting a belt replaced, and that same mechanic, the shop owner, said that her engine was now quieter than his.

Auto-Rx and Neutra do not seem to lower the oil's viscosity. There is no solvent for pure carbon, but these products do seem to slowly dissolve the gums and varnish that hold the particles together and either carry them to the filter or hold them in suspension until the next oil drain.

It is too bad that the photos of the machines on that link show the transmission fluid exchange machine. Those do a good job. I don't know about the antifreeze service machines?...do they work as well as a drain, flush, and replacement?

Ken

troy_heagy · May 21, 2003

.

I understand dagmando's skepticism. There are thousands of snake-oil products out there with claims of improved performance, better engine running, et cetera, et cetera. The claims from the RX website sound exactly the same.

The folks on this board run Lab Analysis on oil to prove that the oils are working. You guys look at the numbers as proof, rather than blindly follow the Pennzoil or Castrol claims.

Why was no Analysis performed on RX? I think that's the bare minimum required. But you didn't. You just dumped this stuff in your $5000 engine. How do you know RX is not like Slick 50 Redux?

digitaldrifter91 · May 21, 2003

i just want to comment. there has been analysis with auto rx (UOA). i dont want to comment exactly on your thoughts though, id rather have someone else who knows more about the product than i do comment, frank and terry.

quote:

"The folks on this board run Lab Analysis on oil to prove that the oils are working. You guys look at the numbers as proof, rather than blindly follow the Pennzoil or Castrol claims."

....i think the pourpose of oil analysis is to actualyl see if the oil is holding up well. no car is exactly the same and some cars act differnently wiht oil. no way that oil companies can make a oil for one certain car.

the normal person would follow pennzoil or castrols intructions but i believe the case in point here is that an analysis is the best bet in knowing if the oil is working for your engine...

every oil company said it offers more protection for your engine, even slick 50. so would u just use their product based on their advertisments? or would u run a UOA to actually see if their product is mombo-jumbo?

im not flamming, im saying that cause i dont want to be flamed back upon =). this is my opinion, not my advice.

take care, jay

sprintman · May 21, 2003

There has been UOA/VOA of Auto-Rx if my memory serves me correctly. Seek and you shall find!!

troy_heagy · May 21, 2003

I didn't find any Virgin Analysis. You have one?

The Used Analysis don't show any cleaning:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000145
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000335
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000429

Odd. If the Auto-RX was doing it's job, shouldn't the Si and Ca levels be highly increased?

Troy

Terry · May 21, 2003

Incorrect Troy, Si and Ca are not even relevant to "cleaning" indications but additives levels and possibly superheated dirt particles.

Go back and read the "motor oil and RX" guidelines please.

Heres a baseline spectro I recently posted for another skeptic that does not understand oil analysis AUTO-RX Vis at 100c 7.1cST all other values 0, done by OAI.

[ May 22, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

Engine cleaning oil flush - read this great article.

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