I have used 5w30 in my R18 before with no ill effects (using up some of my stash)
Using 5w30 in a engine speced for 0w20?
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In 2005 I bought a VW Jetta with the TDI PD engine. VW speced a 5w-40 oil that had to meet a mysterious 505.01 standard. I researched and decided Motul was the best choice for the oil that met the VW spec and ran with that instead of the Castrol garbage the VW dealers were selling. Eventually a lot of information became available and people now recognize that oils like Mobil 1 TDT actually protect the engine best. So, well out of warranty, I switched to what looked like the best oil for my car.
Now we have a 2012 Pilot. Honda says 0w-20 is best for it. I will follow their recommendation with a full synthetic 0w-20 for at least the warranty period. By then, or not long after, there will be a lot of information available on what may or may not work better at which point I may or may not switch to 5w-30 or another oil depending on what actual experience shows. Most of my information is going to come from BITOG, which is why I like this site.
Now we have a 2012 Pilot. Honda says 0w-20 is best for it. I will follow their recommendation with a full synthetic 0w-20 for at least the warranty period. By then, or not long after, there will be a lot of information available on what may or may not work better at which point I may or may not switch to 5w-30 or another oil depending on what actual experience shows. Most of my information is going to come from BITOG, which is why I like this site.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Well don't void your warranty by choosing a "wrong" oil weight.
Since I have a part in my owners manual stating something to the effect that for hot or long highway drives "a higher viscosity [than 0W20] may be better" so I usually use 5W-30. I do drive long and hard.
Long highway drives (even at speeds as high as you can get away with in NA) are one of the easiest driving conditions you can submit your engine to unless you're towing a trailer that is close to the maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
If the engine is spec'd for a 0W-20 there really are no conditions that would warrant a full grade heavier oil.
Engines spec'd for 20wt oil don't generally have any tighter clearences than other engines. What they do have is well controlled oil temp's under conditions for which the vehicle is expected to be used.
Well don't void your warranty by choosing a "wrong" oil weight.
Since I have a part in my owners manual stating something to the effect that for hot or long highway drives "a higher viscosity [than 0W20] may be better" so I usually use 5W-30. I do drive long and hard.
Long highway drives (even at speeds as high as you can get away with in NA) are one of the easiest driving conditions you can submit your engine to unless you're towing a trailer that is close to the maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
If the engine is spec'd for a 0W-20 there really are no conditions that would warrant a full grade heavier oil.
Engines spec'd for 20wt oil don't generally have any tighter clearences than other engines. What they do have is well controlled oil temp's under conditions for which the vehicle is expected to be used.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Well don't void your warranty by choosing a "wrong" oil weight.
Since I have a part in my owners manual stating something to the effect that for hot or long highway drives "a higher viscosity [than 0W20] may be better" so I usually use 5W-30. I do drive long and hard.
Long highway drives (even at speeds as high as you can get away with in NA) are one of the easiest driving conditions you can submit your engine to unless you're towing a trailer that is close to the maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
If the engine is spec'd for a 0W-20 there really are no conditions that would warrant a full grade heavier oil.
Engines spec'd for 20wt oil don't generally have any tighter clearences than other engines. What they do have is well controlled oil temp's under conditions for which the vehicle is expected to be used.
Caterham: We continue to cross this ground.
The language that river_rat alluded to is Toyota's. It certainly begs the question: Why the advisory?
Also, as mentioned above, Honda continues to recommend 5W-30 weight oil for its higher performance 2.0-liter Si engines, 10W-30 for the S2k, and 5W-30 synthetic oil for the turbocharged RDX. Ford also specifies 5W-30 for its Eco-boost motors. There has to be a reason, and the only logical one is to cope with high oil temperatures, regardless of the source.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Well don't void your warranty by choosing a "wrong" oil weight.
Since I have a part in my owners manual stating something to the effect that for hot or long highway drives "a higher viscosity [than 0W20] may be better" so I usually use 5W-30. I do drive long and hard.
Long highway drives (even at speeds as high as you can get away with in NA) are one of the easiest driving conditions you can submit your engine to unless you're towing a trailer that is close to the maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
If the engine is spec'd for a 0W-20 there really are no conditions that would warrant a full grade heavier oil.
Engines spec'd for 20wt oil don't generally have any tighter clearences than other engines. What they do have is well controlled oil temp's under conditions for which the vehicle is expected to be used.
Caterham: We continue to cross this ground.
The language that river_rat alluded to is Toyota's. It certainly begs the question: Why the advisory?
Also, as mentioned above, Honda continues to recommend 5W-30 weight oil for its higher performance 2.0-liter Si engines, 10W-30 for the S2k, and 5W-30 synthetic oil for the turbocharged RDX. Ford also specifies 5W-30 for its Eco-boost motors. There has to be a reason, and the only logical one is to cope with high oil temperatures, regardless of the source.
Why would anybody think the Manufacturer would care about the customer? You select oil WT based on oil temp at 100 DEG/C. Think for your self and quit quoting the manual like it is some type of order else you will go to jail. In Japan they run 40WT oil! The performance crowd will run 50WT oils in their Turbo Cars.
Originally Posted By: Hounds
In your case, however, your owner's manual "recommends" 0W-20 weight oil. (I put the quotes around the word "recommends" because, if you read the language in the manual, Honda's recommendation is really a mandate.) Honda (and other manufacturers) specify that weight oil in order to comply with CAFE and, thus, receive federal SULEV & ULEV energy credits.
If you're alluding to what I think you're alluding to, I think there's a slightly more accurate way to say this. CAFE doesn't require Honda to use 0W-20 oil, or any grade of oil in particular. No federal agency does. However, the regulations DO require that Honda (and any other manufacturer) to do everything in their authority to ensure that customers driving the cars are using the same lubricants as those used to certify the fuel economy of the engines before they are sold. In this case, Honda apparently is using 0W-20 oil in fuel economy certifications; therefore, they are "recommending" the use of 0W-20 to the end user.
Again, if that's what you were referring to, I think that might be a slightly more accurate way to state it. If that wasn't what you were meaning, then please accept my apologies for going off-topic.
In your case, however, your owner's manual "recommends" 0W-20 weight oil. (I put the quotes around the word "recommends" because, if you read the language in the manual, Honda's recommendation is really a mandate.) Honda (and other manufacturers) specify that weight oil in order to comply with CAFE and, thus, receive federal SULEV & ULEV energy credits.
If you're alluding to what I think you're alluding to, I think there's a slightly more accurate way to say this. CAFE doesn't require Honda to use 0W-20 oil, or any grade of oil in particular. No federal agency does. However, the regulations DO require that Honda (and any other manufacturer) to do everything in their authority to ensure that customers driving the cars are using the same lubricants as those used to certify the fuel economy of the engines before they are sold. In this case, Honda apparently is using 0W-20 oil in fuel economy certifications; therefore, they are "recommending" the use of 0W-20 to the end user.
Again, if that's what you were referring to, I think that might be a slightly more accurate way to state it. If that wasn't what you were meaning, then please accept my apologies for going off-topic.
Originally Posted By: zmelli
Why would anybody think the Manufacturer would care about the customer?
Because they don't want to deal with recalls and class action suits.
Quote:
You select oil WT based on oil temp at 100 DEG/C.
Can't parse this one..
Quote:
Think for your self and quit quoting the manual like it is some type of order else you will go to jail. In Japan they run 40WT oil! The performance crowd will run 50WT oils in their Turbo Cars.
The fact that 40WT oils may be used in Japan or Europe can simply mean that those are the ones that are more widely available over there. In the USA, 20wt oils were recommended and used in many new cars for a decade now. This leads to wider availability of these oils in America simply to stronger demand. It may not be wise to recommend Xw-20 oils to be used elsewhere because consumers would have to jump through the hoops to find them, sort of like people do here to find Euro-spec oils.
Why would anybody think the Manufacturer would care about the customer?
Because they don't want to deal with recalls and class action suits.
Quote:
You select oil WT based on oil temp at 100 DEG/C.
Can't parse this one..
Quote:
Think for your self and quit quoting the manual like it is some type of order else you will go to jail. In Japan they run 40WT oil! The performance crowd will run 50WT oils in their Turbo Cars.
The fact that 40WT oils may be used in Japan or Europe can simply mean that those are the ones that are more widely available over there. In the USA, 20wt oils were recommended and used in many new cars for a decade now. This leads to wider availability of these oils in America simply to stronger demand. It may not be wise to recommend Xw-20 oils to be used elsewhere because consumers would have to jump through the hoops to find them, sort of like people do here to find Euro-spec oils.
Quote:
the regulations DO require that Honda (and any other manufacturer) to do everything in their authority to ensure that customers driving the cars are using the same lubricants as those used to certify the fuel economy of the engines before they are sold. In this case, Honda apparently is using 0W-20 oil in fuel economy certifications; therefore, they are "recommending" the use of 0W-20 to the end user.
Thanks for that explanation, now things make a lot more sense.
the regulations DO require that Honda (and any other manufacturer) to do everything in their authority to ensure that customers driving the cars are using the same lubricants as those used to certify the fuel economy of the engines before they are sold. In this case, Honda apparently is using 0W-20 oil in fuel economy certifications; therefore, they are "recommending" the use of 0W-20 to the end user.
Thanks for that explanation, now things make a lot more sense.
Hokiefyd/Jason, you're correct Jason, the NHTSA doesn't require the Honda Motor Company ("Honda") to use a particular weight motor oil. I didn't mean to imply that. That's what comes of trying to nutshell the concept of a federal sales-weighted harmonic mean fuel-economy standard for a manufacturer's fleet of current model-year cars. (Whew!)
As you know, there are specific sales-weighted fuel-economy categories, and to extend that a manufacturer is able to achieve a mpg number that is better than that prescribed for a particular CAFE category, the manufacturer can earn fuel-economy "credits" which can then be applied to other sales-weighted categories in the manfacturer's fleet or sold. Honda sells its credits annually, and makes a great deal of money doing so. (I'd have to check, but for the last year that figures exist -- 2005? -- Honda earned something on the order of $250-280M through the sale of energy credits to BMW alone.)
And, as you stated, manufacturers are required to recommend to their customers the same lubricants that they used during the certification process. The point that I was trying to make is that there is no ambiguity about what Honda is "recommending." In this regard, under the category of "Recommended Engine Oil," Honda's current owners' manuals state, in part, "Always use a premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil displaying the API Certification Seal." That's what I was referring to when I wrote that Honda's recommendation is really a mandate, and that Honda specifies that specific oil weight in order to comply with the company's previously having gained certification of a sales-weighted category of cars using that weight oil. Hard to nutshell that. You did it much better.
All that said, I believe one can go to school on the fact that Honda, clearly obsessed with fuel-economy, still recommends 5W-30 weight oil for its higher performance engines (10-30 in the case of the S2k), and 5W-30 weight synthetic oil for the turbo-charged engine in the RDX. The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
As you know, there are specific sales-weighted fuel-economy categories, and to extend that a manufacturer is able to achieve a mpg number that is better than that prescribed for a particular CAFE category, the manufacturer can earn fuel-economy "credits" which can then be applied to other sales-weighted categories in the manfacturer's fleet or sold. Honda sells its credits annually, and makes a great deal of money doing so. (I'd have to check, but for the last year that figures exist -- 2005? -- Honda earned something on the order of $250-280M through the sale of energy credits to BMW alone.)
And, as you stated, manufacturers are required to recommend to their customers the same lubricants that they used during the certification process. The point that I was trying to make is that there is no ambiguity about what Honda is "recommending." In this regard, under the category of "Recommended Engine Oil," Honda's current owners' manuals state, in part, "Always use a premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil displaying the API Certification Seal." That's what I was referring to when I wrote that Honda's recommendation is really a mandate, and that Honda specifies that specific oil weight in order to comply with the company's previously having gained certification of a sales-weighted category of cars using that weight oil. Hard to nutshell that. You did it much better.
All that said, I believe one can go to school on the fact that Honda, clearly obsessed with fuel-economy, still recommends 5W-30 weight oil for its higher performance engines (10-30 in the case of the S2k), and 5W-30 weight synthetic oil for the turbo-charged engine in the RDX. The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
Originally Posted By: Hounds
The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
That's not a logical conclusion at all. What it suggests is that it may be appropriate in those engines for some specific reason...the mostly likely reason being that those engines may see higher oil temperatures.
The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
That's not a logical conclusion at all. What it suggests is that it may be appropriate in those engines for some specific reason...the mostly likely reason being that those engines may see higher oil temperatures.
0W20 will be fine. All 0W20 excepting one are full synthetic. Honda does offer a 0W20 SynBlend.
A case could likely be made that an engine operated strictly on 0W20 (especially in Colorado) would last longer than one on 5W30.
It would depend on operating oil temps and number of cold starts.
In the end obsessing over a 10% difference in operating viscosity is really not worth it.
A case could likely be made that an engine operated strictly on 0W20 (especially in Colorado) would last longer than one on 5W30.
It would depend on operating oil temps and number of cold starts.
In the end obsessing over a 10% difference in operating viscosity is really not worth it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Hounds
The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
That's not a logical conclusion at all. What it suggests is that it may be appropriate in those engines for some specific reason...the mostly likely reason being that those engines may see higher oil temperatures.
(Emphasis supplied.)
OK, that works for me. And if the OP also anticipates higher oil temperatures, there's no mechanical reason why he can't benefit from what TM & HMC recommended for that (HTO-06) environment.
Originally Posted By: Hounds
The only logical conclusion is that 5W-30 weight oils, conventional and synthetic, must offer additional protection over 0W-20 weight motor oil in a HT/HS environment.
That's not a logical conclusion at all. What it suggests is that it may be appropriate in those engines for some specific reason...the mostly likely reason being that those engines may see higher oil temperatures.
(Emphasis supplied.)
OK, that works for me. And if the OP also anticipates higher oil temperatures, there's no mechanical reason why he can't benefit from what TM & HMC recommended for that (HTO-06) environment.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
0W20 will be fine. . . . In the end obsessing over a 10% difference in operating viscosity is really not worth it.
Blasphemer!
0W20 will be fine. . . . In the end obsessing over a 10% difference in operating viscosity is really not worth it.
Blasphemer!
I experienced the galling exhaust cam issue in my 2003 crv. It had nothing to do with 5w20 as I ran M1 5w30 since the first oil change. I beleive that inadequate surface hardening or the fact tha Honda recommend valve clearance inspection at 100k could be the cause. I feel it should be done sooner as I found that all my exhaust valves where way too tight at 100k. The rollers beneath the cam where in pristine condition therefore, it must have been more of a surface hardening issue that was excarbated by tight exhaust valves.
Due to Catherham's influence, I have started using 0w20 for the past 2 years during fall, winter and spring. Currently I have Toyota 0w20 sm and my engine has never ran smoother perhaps all that moly has something to do with that. I still use 5w30 during the hot summer months as my water temp is usually 10-15 degrees celsius higher in summer.
Since I got a scanguage II, I have been monitoring my water temps. I wish I could see the actual oil temp. During the winter months when it is below zero celsius I can never get above 82 celsius unless idling in traffic. During fall and spring I get between 84-86 celsius. In the summer on the higway steady state cruising It is around 90 celsius but in the city with stop ang go traffic it goes from 97-105 celsius the fan kicks on at 105 and it drops to 97 and keeps cycling between the two temps. That is why I would rather have the extra protection of a slightly heavier oil in the summer especially when towing my motorcycles.
Due to Catherham's influence, I have started using 0w20 for the past 2 years during fall, winter and spring. Currently I have Toyota 0w20 sm and my engine has never ran smoother perhaps all that moly has something to do with that. I still use 5w30 during the hot summer months as my water temp is usually 10-15 degrees celsius higher in summer.
Since I got a scanguage II, I have been monitoring my water temps. I wish I could see the actual oil temp. During the winter months when it is below zero celsius I can never get above 82 celsius unless idling in traffic. During fall and spring I get between 84-86 celsius. In the summer on the higway steady state cruising It is around 90 celsius but in the city with stop ang go traffic it goes from 97-105 celsius the fan kicks on at 105 and it drops to 97 and keeps cycling between the two temps. That is why I would rather have the extra protection of a slightly heavier oil in the summer especially when towing my motorcycles.
Originally Posted By: vortex9
I experienced the galling exhaust cam issue in my 2003 crv. It had nothing to do with 5w20 as I ran M1 5w30 since the first oil change. I beleive that inadequate surface hardening or the fact tha Honda recommend valve clearance inspection at 100k could be the cause. I feel it should be done sooner as I found that all my exhaust valves where way too tight at 100k. The rollers beneath the cam where in pristine condition therefore, it must have been more of a surface hardening issue that was excarbated by tight exhaust valves.
Due to Catherham's influence, I have started using 0w20 for the past 2 years during fall, winter and spring. Currently I have Toyota 0w20 sm and my engine has never ran smoother perhaps all that moly has something to do with that. I still use 5w30 during the hot summer months as my water temp is usually 10-15 degrees celsius higher in summer.
Since I got a scanguage II, I have been monitoring my water temps. I wish I could see the actual oil temp. During the winter months when it is below zero celsius I can never get above 82 celsius unless idling in traffic. During fall and spring I get between 84-86 celsius. In the summer on the higway steady state cruising It is around 90 celsius but in the city with stop ang go traffic it goes from 97-105 celsius the fan kicks on at 105 and it drops to 97 and keeps cycling between the two temps. That is why I would rather have the extra protection of a slightly heavier oil in the summer especially when towing my motorcycles.
Does Honda still not use self-adjusting hydraulic valve lifters, as has been common in most America cars for 60 years?
I experienced the galling exhaust cam issue in my 2003 crv. It had nothing to do with 5w20 as I ran M1 5w30 since the first oil change. I beleive that inadequate surface hardening or the fact tha Honda recommend valve clearance inspection at 100k could be the cause. I feel it should be done sooner as I found that all my exhaust valves where way too tight at 100k. The rollers beneath the cam where in pristine condition therefore, it must have been more of a surface hardening issue that was excarbated by tight exhaust valves.
Due to Catherham's influence, I have started using 0w20 for the past 2 years during fall, winter and spring. Currently I have Toyota 0w20 sm and my engine has never ran smoother perhaps all that moly has something to do with that. I still use 5w30 during the hot summer months as my water temp is usually 10-15 degrees celsius higher in summer.
Since I got a scanguage II, I have been monitoring my water temps. I wish I could see the actual oil temp. During the winter months when it is below zero celsius I can never get above 82 celsius unless idling in traffic. During fall and spring I get between 84-86 celsius. In the summer on the higway steady state cruising It is around 90 celsius but in the city with stop ang go traffic it goes from 97-105 celsius the fan kicks on at 105 and it drops to 97 and keeps cycling between the two temps. That is why I would rather have the extra protection of a slightly heavier oil in the summer especially when towing my motorcycles.
Does Honda still not use self-adjusting hydraulic valve lifters, as has been common in most America cars for 60 years?
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
What are your thoughts on using a quality synthetic 5w30 in a car like a new V6 Honda Accord that calls for 0w20?
My thoughts are that I would drain the 0W-20 out of the engine as soon as I got it home from the dealer's lot.
What are your thoughts on using a quality synthetic 5w30 in a car like a new V6 Honda Accord that calls for 0w20?
My thoughts are that I would drain the 0W-20 out of the engine as soon as I got it home from the dealer's lot.
There IS one instance where thicker oil may be the best option: oil consumption. If you're engine burns oil on a 20-weight, and doesn't on a thicker oil, I'd personally run the thicker oil, to protect the catalytic converter, which are damaged over time by oil-burning deposits.
Hence the 5W-30/20W-50 mix in my Tribute...I have a test coming in October, and can't afford to fail. Anything I can do to keep the exhaust 'clean', I will.
Hence the 5W-30/20W-50 mix in my Tribute...I have a test coming in October, and can't afford to fail. Anything I can do to keep the exhaust 'clean', I will.
dont use the 5w30
as i said before Honda knows these engines best use what they say.
5w30 runs hotter and takes longer to flow and gets into the tight places a little slower than the 20 wt.
it also robs gas mileage and power in a lot of cases.
as i said before Honda knows these engines best use what they say.
5w30 runs hotter and takes longer to flow and gets into the tight places a little slower than the 20 wt.
it also robs gas mileage and power in a lot of cases.
Well, you could run the MI Extended Synthetic 5w-20 which I believe has slightly higher viscosity numbers towards the high end of the 20w range. Just a thought. Not implying you change it at a longer interval.....just for the viscosity and extra additives perhaps.
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