New brakes in the Honda...break-in advice?

[oilmaven]

The news regarding the brakes in my Honda wasn't good (as I expected). I brought the car to the "local" (an hour away) dealership to have them checked out. The dealer called back to inform me that 2 calipers were frozen and the pads were worn unevenly. They advised replacement of the rotors, pads and the frozen calipers plus associated hardware(won't tell you how much they're charging). I've been considering selling this car and picking up a Gen II Prius considering how much I drive but couldn't sell the car with the brake issues. I had the brakes done (front and rear pads and rotors) 60,000 miles ago at a local shop and they never felt right...pedal was always hard. Lately I experienced a pretty severe pull if braking hard. I knew something was wrong.

These Hondas are known for their issues when servicing the brakes...it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings (which is what happened the last time) and by the time I bought the new bearings and parts ended up paying the same as the dealer estimate...figured I'd just let them do the job this time as I've decided to get another year (at least) out of the car (used car pricing is nuts). The dealer said they were using "aftermarket" parts (sourced from NAPA, Car Quest and Advance Auto Parts) to reduce the price (OK with me). I am a little concerned that they are installing semi-metallic pads rather than the Honda-recommended ceramics but hopefully they should be fine.

There are a couple of different recommended approaches to breaking in a new set of brakes. One says you should make a series of hard stops letting the brakes cool down for a few seconds in-between to best seat the pads to the rotors. The other says use them steadily but GENTLY for a couple of hundred miles (I tried the first one the last time and don't think it helped much). I'm picking the car up this afternoon...would appreciate any opinions/experiences.

 

[Eddie]

I have had my success by doing the following. For 50 miles or so just drive normally. I then run the vehicle up to 40 or 50 mph and so and do fairly firm rolling stops. I do this 6 times or so and then one hard emergency stop to set off the anti lock system (forgot the word). The last test is to make sure everything is OK for an emergency.

 

[barlowc]

From what I understand, a lot depends on the pads and what their manufacturer recommends. Some manufacturers suggest a specific bedding process while others say that no special break-in is required.

As some have said in other threads, what kind of break-in do new cars receive and those serviced at brake shop? None, and the majority all break-in just fine during the course of normal driving. I seem to agree with that logic unless you are using high-performance track pads or something and have a reason to bed them quickly.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: oilmaven
it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings

That's not correct. I also live in the Rust Belt, and have removed many Honda rotors which appeared to be welded on by rust. You just need the right technique.

Braking efficiency depends on many factors. Seized parts, or aftermarket parts, will have a dramatic effect on how the brakes feel. It's a system of interconnected parts, so ALL the parts need to be in top shape for proper feel.

As for break-in, no special technique is necessary; just drive it normally. Specific break-in procedures are meant to speed the bedding process, not to effect or improve it.

 

[CharBaby]

I agree with just driving and braking normaly. The brakes will bed in properly just fine!

As-far-as the dealer using semi-metalic or ceramic, this can be determined by you. Ask for what you want!

When buying brake pads for a vehicle, often the (higher end) brake pads from, oh lets say, AAP. These are in fact, what is on the vehicle. This is called "Vehcile Specific Friction".

Lets say the dealer buys pads at AAP and gets WearEver GOLD! If your vehicle has semi-met's as OE, then the brake pads will be simi-met's. Same as if your vehicle has ceramic as OE...No need to get the specific box of pads that are labeled "Ceramic"!

Now, if the dealer is buying AAP/WareEver "SILVER" pad, then they're probably semi-metalic.

AAP for example also has an "NEW" WearEver Platinum which are strictly Ceramic. And these are their highest line of Ceramic House Brand of brake pad before jumping into the National Brands from the BIG BOYS.

Now, someone may jump in and correct me if I am wrong but, this is the way that I understand it to be!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: oilmaven
it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings

That generation of Hondas have "captive" rotors. You can remove them more easily with one of these:

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122005_08.pdf

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilmaven
it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings

That generation of Hondas have "captive" rotors. You can remove them more easily with one of these:

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122005_08.pdf


Or you can do I'm about to do on my Accord: Ditch that whole ridiculous and asinine setup and use hubs and rotors off of a 99 Acura CL. From now on, rotor changes will go like this:
1. Remove wheel
2. Remove caliper
3. Slide rotor off wheel studs
4. Slide new rotor on wheel studs
5. Reinstall caliper and wheel. Done.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
That generation of Hondas have "captive" rotors.

Oops! I missed that the OP's car is a '96 Accord. Honda used that dumb design on Accords until the '98 MY.

And that is a cool tool.

 

[Rican]

Get up to 45 and slow down as fast as you can to 5, make sure not to do a complete stop. Repeat consecutively 6 to 8 times. Once done cruise for a good 5 to 10 mins for everything to cool down. If the pads are high performance just change the top speed to 60, everything else stays the same. Make sure you do this on an empty highway, also it is possible you'll feel some fading during the process.

Done this method with great results and improved stopping distances, also no squeeky noise from pad surface.

 

[oilmaven]

Thanks, guys...leaving soon to pick it up. The dealer said they "almost lost" one of the front bearings during the replacement but all is OK. I think I'll just drive it easy for awhile and then follow Rican's advice regarding the 45-5 mph process. My information concurs that a bedding process improves performance.

As much as I'd like something else to "play" with (as in a new toy), the numbers don't make sense even at $4.00 per gallon considering the prices of used vehicles out there. Best to stay with the known reliability of the 'ol Accord for awhile (that is until I run across an "unbelievable deal").

 

[JZiggy]

I have done this project on a 94 and 95 Accord a number of times and I have NEVER had an issue with damaging the bearings. The dealership should have a documented process (as per FSM) for removing them safely.

 

[Texan4Life]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilmaven
it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings

That generation of Hondas have "captive" rotors. You can remove them more easily with one of these:

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122005_08.pdf


wow what were those engineers smoking??

never seen that before... then again I have never owned a honda or worked on one.

 

[yonyon]

The problem I've seen is that by the time the rotors need to be replaced, the hubs look to be more cratered than the moon. When one of these cars comes to mee and needs new front rotors I suggest two places that I know can machine the new rotors on the car after installation. I don't have a rig to do it. The alternative (if they don't want to do that) is to pay for new rotors, new hubs and new bearings because I'm not putting new hubs into the old bearings.

When it's a hard-luck case there's a third alternative. It's to embarassing to explain in detail, but if you have to you can sort of true up the new rotors on the car without proper equipment. If you need to keep it cheap, it can be done (surface quality may be pretty icky until time and use fix that which may take a week or so) with a bit of old junk, a couple of fasteners, and a tool bit. Yes, you can use a pair of earrings as a pair of tool bits in a pinch.

 

[ChrisW]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilmaven
it's nearly impossible to get the front rotors off without trashing the bearings

That generation of Hondas have "captive" rotors. You can remove them more easily with one of these:

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122005_08.pdf


Or you can do I'm about to do on my Accord: Ditch that whole ridiculous and asinine setup and use hubs and rotors off of a 99 Acura CL. From now on, rotor changes will go like this:
1. Remove wheel
2. Remove caliper
3. Slide rotor off wheel studs
4. Slide new rotor on wheel studs
5. Reinstall caliper and wheel. Done.


Best mod I ever did for my mother's 97 accord when she had it. Completely fixed the run-out on the previous rotors put in by the shop (and I think they damaged the hub/bearing while they were at it) and it made brake changes so much easier. I also did the lower ball joints since I had the knuckle off the car. The car has since crashed (car in front of her on on-ramp stopped suddenly for no cause [there was no stopped traffic in front of him] and her car rear-ended his) but that mod is totally worthwhile if you own one of the accords that have the captive hub design.