For all the 5.0L naysayers

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Come on now, a 5.0L V8 that makes 412HP, sounds like a beast, and manages that kind of power, with a redline well over 7,000RPM? Pffff pushrods indeed.
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There is always someone envious of another persons possessions and happiness. I am sure there will be a couple of pages stating why other companies V8's are "better" and defense from Ford fans the the 5.0 is the bee's knees. I am just happy that all V8's from Ford, GM, and Chrysler are as good as they are.
 
I dont understand your post.. are you saying it has pushrods or making fun of pushrod engines or what?
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
I dont understand your post.. are you saying it has pushrods or making fun of pushrod engines or what?


I'm saying I want to see a 5.0L Pushrod V8 that can do that.
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I am seriously considering buying the Boss 302 this summer. The performance is just staggering, even compared to cars like the M3 and M5.

By the way, I love how it switches over to a special "lopey idle".


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Obviously you've never ridden in an old DZ302 Z28. And with a carburetor and distributor, no less. Easy 400 rwhp as delivered with a sharp tune. My own little stroker small block, while displacing almost 7 liters makes well over 550 hp and is as docile as a kitten, pulling 6th gear at 1000 rpm without a buck or a shudder.

Seriously, while the new 5.0 finally has brought some credibility back to the nickname, it's far from the pinnacle of engine development. A very complex design with yards of cam chains may not be a recipe for long term reliability. High specific output car engines in my experience tend to live short lives compared to lower stressed designs. The 5.0 is too new to tell yet.

I'm certain you could de-stroke a Z06 motor down to 5 liters, that should yield about 360 hp, a bit of a tune, you could easily have equal power output. I am not a fan of complexity for complexity's sake, have you ever seen the leakdown specs on 4 valve engines?
 
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I'm glad they've improved the legibility of the instrument cluster. The font in the ones I've seen a couple of years back looked terrible and hard to read.
 
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5.0L Coyote? It's still a Modular engine with DOHC heads.


So could one take a lower half of a Coyote (5.0) and bolt on 4.6 big valve 2V heads on it? The 5.0 has shorter stroke and bigger bore. Bore centers on a 4.6/5.4 prohibit boring out past anything worthwhile which was the biggest gripe of the modular when it comes to performance upgrades.
If it is still a modular, all cylinder heads could be mechanically compatible. Think of the possibilities without the need to update computers and wiring.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R



Come on now, a 5.0L V8 that makes 412HP, sounds like a beast, and manages that kind of power, with a redline well over 7,000RPM? Pffff pushrods indeed.
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The BOSS 302 makes 444HP. 412HP was what the GT made. That has now been increased for 420HP.
 
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
All of you are wrong. The VTEK is da best motor EVAR!!!!


Dude, it's "VTACK". And the guy in the video never hit VTACK, yo. 5.0 for the slow, yo.

Ha ha.

That new Coyote rocks.
 
Seems like a decent engine and I cannot imagine folks complaining about that.

My issue is the tacky looking treatment to a Mustang that goes with it on the exterior.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Obviously you've never ridden in an old DZ302 Z28. And with a carburetor and distributor, no less. Easy 400 rwhp as delivered with a sharp tune. My own little stroker small block, while displacing almost 7 liters makes well over 550 hp and is as docile as a kitten, pulling 6th gear at 1000 rpm without a buck or a shudder.

Seriously, while the new 5.0 finally has brought some credibility back to the nickname, it's far from the pinnacle of engine development. A very complex design with yards of cam chains may not be a recipe for long term reliability. High specific output car engines in my experience tend to live short lives compared to lower stressed designs. The 5.0 is too new to tell yet.

I'm certain you could de-stroke a Z06 motor down to 5 liters, that should yield about 360 hp, a bit of a tune, you could easily have equal power output. I am not a fan of complexity for complexity's sake, have you ever seen the leakdown specs on 4 valve engines?


So is Chevy smarter than everyone else? Sticking with 2 valve OHV V8's for the Vette? I guess the trade off is a more displacement at lower rpms to make equal power, but with much physically smaller, lighter, and simpler engines?
I guess the ZR-1 shows that the KISS method can take on almost any techno-wiz car. I think the main drawback of the cam in block is that they can't have variable valve timing? Or atleast seperate intake and exhaust timing changes. Maybe 2 cams would fit in the block?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Obviously you've never ridden in an old DZ302 Z28. And with a carburetor and distributor, no less. Easy 400 rwhp as delivered with a sharp tune. My own little stroker small block, while displacing almost 7 liters makes well over 550 hp and is as docile as a kitten, pulling 6th gear at 1000 rpm without a buck or a shudder.

Seriously, while the new 5.0 finally has brought some credibility back to the nickname, it's far from the pinnacle of engine development. A very complex design with yards of cam chains may not be a recipe for long term reliability. High specific output car engines in my experience tend to live short lives compared to lower stressed designs. The 5.0 is too new to tell yet.

I'm certain you could de-stroke a Z06 motor down to 5 liters, that should yield about 360 hp, a bit of a tune, you could easily have equal power output. I am not a fan of complexity for complexity's sake, have you ever seen the leakdown specs on 4 valve engines?



Plenty of guys with M62 and S62's with lots of miles on them, and that's a 13 year old engine design.

And the Modulars in general are probably the longest lasting engine on the road, that is despite the "million feet" of timing chains.

And the DZ302 did not make 400HP (NET) stock (right down the manifolds).

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What all of these various pieces added up to was a healthy small block rated very conservatively at 290 horsepower at 5800 rpm and 290 ft. lbs. of torque at 4200 rpm. Rumor has it, however, that the same engine produced 350 horsepower at 7000 rpm on the dynamometer! Why would Chevy underrate the engine? Certainly insurance reasons come to mind, along with the desire to understate what the engine was capable of lest the various racing sanctioning bodies penalize the teams that chose to run the Z/28 in competition.


It would make it with some work (just like similarly flowing heads will do the same on an SBF) there is nothing magical to the formula of making high HP out of relatively small displacement. It is making it driveable, not "peaky" and still managing good fuel economy and manners that are the hard parts.

The S62, which is ~5.0L as well came out in 1999 and did exactly that. Good fuel economy, BIG flat torque curve thanks the VANOS, and 400HP. Not to mention a 190Mph top speed, something that old Camaro couldn't do, and if through upgraded power output and some gear swaps you got it there, it wouldn't be anywhere in the neighbourhood of safe by modern standards.

Ford has also been making the Modular for 21 years now. It is FAR from a new engine design, and the 32V version of the 4.6L have been around almost as long with no durability issues to speak of, in spite of all that timing chain
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And the 5.0L moniker had (and continues to have) plenty of credibility. That's why they brought it back, that's why the fox is probably the most popular drag racing platform of all time. That car is the reason the NMRA likely exists. And I believe the Mustang is also the only car to have its own drag racing league.

Regardless of all the talk of engines with the same displacement making that kind of power (and as you know Steve, I'm working on one right now in that black '87 GT that was formerly a carb'd setup in the '85 and made that kind of power there as well), the thing about the "modular" 5.0L is that it doesn't give up bottom-end, fuel economy or driveability in making that kind of power.

And that is often the sacrifice others make.

Would a destroked LS7 cammed to make 440-ish HP retain the driveability and low-end manners its 7.0L sibling has? Of course not. It doesn't have two entire sets of cams that can be advanced and retarded to move the power band around. That is part of the significance of the DOHC setup with the variable cam timing, you have the ability to move the power curve around on the fly, something we can't do with our old distributor wearing pushrod motors
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I was a hotrodder but no place to run these babies anymore. I tromp almost everone on the road with a 1.5L - thats how slow and conjested traffic is. I was running a Porsche on the highway one night (in a rare moment for me these days) and even he gave up at 115mph while i was jammed up against the "warranty" fuel cutoff. What am I saying - more fun to drive a "slow" car fast than a fast car slow. My last muscle car was a Bullitt "stang '01. the V6 ponies are WA Ytoo fast enough for anybody. -

AFA overtuned - The Honda would make 400 hp if it was a 5 litre - and this isan "economy" stroker small valve engine. V8s have been ridculously detuned for ages.
 
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Not saying it's bad, guys. I'm an enthusiast, and I like ANY hot car that gives a rewarding driving experience. Might be a turbo 4 banger, might be a blown GT500, or anywhere in between.

I just don't see inherent advantages in sheer complexity. The engine in question is HUGE, expensive, and very mechanically complex. I've seen many a cammer in the shop with chain and related issues, they don't tolerate abuse well. Kudos to Ford for making it work, but I'm at the dragstrip almost once a month during the season, and they are far from unbeatable in stock form. My old 4 door luxury car can give them a good run, and I've beaten more than one if the driver isn't VERY sharp off the line. Even seen one grenade spectacularly. Boss 302's are known to overheat at the road courses. They're not the end all, be all engine design. But they are a great car. Terrific bang for the buck.

Anyone seen the recent Viper motors? Cam in a cam with a mucho simplified setup that allows everything the Ford design does. Don't really need 4 valves if the two are big enough!

How about posting up the info on that 5 valver Dparm. Seems like it let go a bit early as well.
 
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