Installed my Mag-Hytec today

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

Mag-Hytec wants you to fill to the top of the dipstick, contrary to the axle mfr's recommendation. I had a talk with the designer of the cover about that and he was adamant that the extra oil floods the tubes and cools and lubricates the wheel bearings better. He also claims it results in fewer axle seal failures. I tend to disagree but because I wanted to observe what effects his way may have had, I did it his way for several thousand miles. No ill effects. Nor any positive ones. I monitored oil temps both at the M-H level and Ford's level and didn't see a difference (sometimes high oil levels result in higher oil temps). I have ended up doing the same thing you did... midway between the marks.



I think it may need more oil because the Hytec has extra space for the oil to be thrown while the vehicle is moving.

 

[BeerCan]

OK decided to do mine today. Here is the pic I took. Sorry, but I did not realize it was out of focus. Mine has the non electronic limited slip. It looks a little different compared to 2010_FX4's

 

[Jim Allen]

Beer can: Yeah the ridge to the right of the big opening is where the slots for the Ls clutches engage.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: beast3300
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Every time I see one of those covers, or hear about someone installing one, it BURNS me that they do not make one for my axle!!

That's because you need a Ford rearend!!! That GM one is junk! LOL


Granted, but the Blue Oval axle I would use (BUILT, MWC 9" variant with Wavetrac or Quaife diff, and a watts link) does not allow for the use of a M-H cover.

 

[wirelessF]

Kinda off-topic but I'm looking at these pics and was wondering how the rear end would fail if you did too much one-wheel peels.

 

[MolaKule]

FX4, it appears the gear tooth wear patterns show good loading and correct shimming.

Ford did well with these axles.

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
As noted in another post, I simply followed Ford's lead from the OC at 13,300 and the information in the OM. The previous fill was Ford synthetic and I plan to send it off for a UOA and will know soon enough how it fared through the last 56,000 miles.


What do you mean I simply followed "Fords Lead"? Do you mean the Ford Dealer did the first change? Did they put in the LSD Additive? Maybe they just billed you for it; I doubt they put it in....

Ford manual are vary vague on what oil goes in what Axel, my manual contains wrong info for the 2000 MY

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
The purpose of the friction modifier is to reduce the clutch plate chatter in a limited slip differential. The plates have a friction surface, kind of like brake or clutch linings, or more closely, like the clutch plates in an automatic transmission. The idea behind the FMs is to get them to release smoothly. The downside to FMs is that some have very low oxidation resistance, so in high oil temp situations, it can break down at a faster rate than the gear oil and causes the gear oil to oxidize faster because the anti-oxidant additives in the gear oil are forced to work harder. I haven't made a deep study of this but there are organic FMs and synthetic FMs and the organic ones break down faster. From what I understand, the Amsoil product is one of the better ones, so if you used that, you are probably better off. The other types are fine too, certainly in the short run. Long term is where there could possibly be issues but since you are using a top notch gear oil, I seriously doubt you are going to see any trouble. And if trouble came, it would come to someone who runs blisteringly hot gear oil temps often and it would simply be a somewhat shorter life of the oil. Someone who is up on maintenance as you are isn't going to be caught by surprise. The first sign would be a dark color and a bad sorta burnt smell. Somebody in the biz recently let me have a whiff of some gear oil he claimed failed due to excess FMs in the oil. It was dark and smelled REALLY bad. I only have his word on the situation but added it to my "to be verified" file.



Well stated. The specialized FM's prevent stick-slip chatter for sure. I have always preferred adding a 1/4 tube of differential FM at a time until the chatter dissappears, that way, you won't overdose, since many diffy oils already contain a certain dosage, except for those oils that specifically say they don't contain extra FM's.

I don't know how anyone can "sniff" an oil and tell that it was FM and any failures could be attributed to it.

After some use, gear oil stinks to "high heaven" anyway because of the phosphorous and sulfur content.

Early additive FM's had a problem with oxidation resistance but the newer FM's contain the improved anti-oxidants so I wouldn't be too concerned with oxidation caused by the FM's.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
FX4, it appears the gear tooth wear patterns show good loading and correct shimming.

Ford did well with these axles.

I was thinking the same when I started looking at the gears. The heel and toe appeared to be nearly as "perfect" as it could be. I have been really happy with the truck thus far.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
What do you mean I simply followed "Fords Lead"? Do you mean the Ford Dealer did the first change? Did they put in the LSD Additive? Maybe they just billed you for it; I doubt they put it in....

Ford manual are vary vague on what oil goes in what Axel, my manual contains wrong info for the 2000 MY

Yes; the Ford dealer did the first change at 13,300. I am sure they did put it in; I was there when it happened in order to catch all of the samples for the UOAs. I am not too concerned about the FM though, the ratio is twice as diluted as it would normally be since there is twice is much gear oil in the axle now.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


Well stated. The specialized FM's prevent stick-slip chatter for sure. I have always preferred adding a 1/4 tube of differential FM at a time until the chatter dissappears, that way, you won't overdose, since many diffy oils already contain a certain dosage, except for those oils that specifically say they don't contain extra FM's.

I don't know how anyone can "sniff" an oil and tell that it was FM and any failures could be attributed to it.

After some use, gear oil stinks to "high heaven" anyway because of the phosphorous and sulfur content.

Early additive FM's had a problem with oxidation resistance but the newer FM's contain the improved anti-oxidants so I wouldn't be too concerned with oxidation caused by the FM's.



Thanks Mola! As to the sniff test, I naturally had my doubts but didn't have the experience to argue the point. I have to say, the oil was extremely malodorous & burnt smelling.

 

[BeerCan]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4




The Amsoil seemed to be thinner than the Ford oil and quite a bit thinner than the old Ford oil. I will be sending the Ford oil out for a UOA and I will post the results when I have them. I am sure this is a "seat of the pants" assessment, but there feels like less drag on the powertrain. It is CERTAINLY going to make maintenance much easier in the future.

Thoughts and comments always welcome!


I don't give much credence to seat of the pants assessments either when it comes to oils. Having said that, even though I used different oil than you (M1) I have the same experience. It seems the truck "rolls" better.

Might be placebo or wishful thinking but I swear there is a difference.
BTW I love this cover. It makes checking the fluid very easy and I really like the idea that it will keep the diff cooler when towing.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: BeerCan
I don't give much credence to seat of the pants assessments either when it comes to oils. Having said that, even though I used different oil than you (M1) I have the same experience. It seems the truck "rolls" better.

Might be placebo or wishful thinking but I swear there is a difference.
BTW I love this cover. It makes checking the fluid very easy and I really like the idea that it will keep the diff cooler when towing.

I think it does roll easier, and I am starting to think it is not just in my head either. It simply feels as though there is less drag on the drive train (could still be seat of the pants), but I like it. I wish I would have bought one of these covers when I did the initial change at 13,300--would have made this last change SO much easier. I am waiting to see the results of the UOA to see how the Ford oil worked...

 

[Jim Allen]

It will be VERY interesting to see the difference between that first UOA and this one.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Wouldnt you guys think that overfilling the diff would cause more drag/pumping losses as the ring and pinion are deeper in the oil and pull a larger ring of oil around the ring gear/carrier?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Well stated. The specialized FM's prevent stick-slip chatter for sure. I have always preferred adding a 1/4 tube of differential FM at a time until the chatter dissappears, that way, you won't overdose, since many diffy oils already contain a certain dosage, except for those oils that specifically say they don't contain extra FM's.

Early additive FM's had a problem with oxidation resistance but the newer FM's contain the improved anti-oxidants so I wouldn't be too concerned with oxidation caused by the FM's.


Mola; Can FMs (especially the XL-3 stuff) actually fall out of solution (or even shear down to ineffectiveness) as some on here have suggested before??

I ask because the low speed turn sqawking/groaning of my Eaton Posi ceases after putting in ~ 6ounces of the Motorcraft stuff, but then (especially after a few long highway runs at speed) the noises come back in about 2-3 weeks time.

 

[BeerCan]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Wouldnt you guys think that overfilling the diff would cause more drag/pumping losses as the ring and pinion are deeper in the oil and pull a larger ring of oil around the ring gear/carrier?



Agreed. That is exactly what I thought. I cannot explain why this is happening, or if it is indeed happening. I just know that at this point I am convinced there is a difference. In a week I probably will not even notice it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: BeerCan
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Wouldnt you guys think that overfilling the diff would cause more drag/pumping losses as the ring and pinion are deeper in the oil and pull a larger ring of oil around the ring gear/carrier?

Agreed. That is exactly what I thought. I cannot explain why this is happening, or if it is indeed happening. I just know that at this point I am convinced there is a difference. In a week I probably will not even notice it.

Yes; I would think the same, especially since I have 2x the oil in the differential that I had before. However, it does not seem to feel that way, maybe it has something to do with the difference between the Ford oil and the Amsoil?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
It will be VERY interesting to see the difference between that first UOA and this one.

Me too; I just hope I caught a clean sample. It was not as easy as it should have been, but I suppose the only contaminant would be silicon.

 

[Onug]

I just installed my cover today too. I decided to go with the Motorcraft oil for my rig (2010 F-350). I thought it would take a full six qts, so I added the appropriate amount of FM (14oz) and started filling away. The oil started coming out the stock fill hole at 4 qts, which I thought was a bit strange. Glad I found this post, sounds like the only way to get the full advertised amount is to fill above the stock fill hole. Not sure I want to do that.

But now I've got too much FM in the diff...nuts. Any ideas?