Any E92 M3 owners
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Since most E92/E90 M3 owners are still enjoying the "free" oil changes provided by the BMW dealers...I doubt you'll find too many M3 lurkers here...
My M3 seems to like the M1 0W40, the oil warms up nicely to 210F within 4~5 miles of highway driving, and I can feel power being unleashed since the motor now has to work less pushing the oil around.
The oil temp fluctuated between 210F~215F today while the car was sitting in a bumper to bumper traffic for an hour. Temperature outside the car was around 85F.
My M3 seems to like the M1 0W40, the oil warms up nicely to 210F within 4~5 miles of highway driving, and I can feel power being unleashed since the motor now has to work less pushing the oil around.
The oil temp fluctuated between 210F~215F today while the car was sitting in a bumper to bumper traffic for an hour. Temperature outside the car was around 85F.
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Did they fix the issue that made them *recommend* TWS 10w60 to cover up their mess up yet?
It appears they haven't, it is really your choice, but I would run m1 0w40 if it were mine and do a UOA to be sure it was doing well.
It appears they haven't, it is really your choice, but I would run m1 0w40 if it were mine and do a UOA to be sure it was doing well.
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Originally Posted By: Brenden
Did they fix the issue that made them *recommend* TWS 10w60 to cover up their mess up yet?
If by "mess" you mean the ability to operate happily in any conceivable condition (including race laps in the hottest weather), run long drain intervals, and not have huge amounts of catalytic converter-destroying additives in the oil, then no, they haven't fixed that. Can't imagine why...
Did they fix the issue that made them *recommend* TWS 10w60 to cover up their mess up yet?
If by "mess" you mean the ability to operate happily in any conceivable condition (including race laps in the hottest weather), run long drain intervals, and not have huge amounts of catalytic converter-destroying additives in the oil, then no, they haven't fixed that. Can't imagine why...
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
Since most E92/E90 M3 owners are still enjoying the "free" oil changes provided by the BMW dealers...I doubt you'll find too many M3 lurkers here...
My M3 seems to like the M1 0W40, the oil warms up nicely to 210F within 4~5 miles of highway driving, and I can feel power being unleashed since the motor now has to work less pushing the oil around.
The oil temp fluctuated between 210F~215F today while the car was sitting in a bumper to bumper traffic for an hour. Temperature outside the car was around 85F.
How many miles on M1 so far? Have you done any OA on it?
Since most E92/E90 M3 owners are still enjoying the "free" oil changes provided by the BMW dealers...I doubt you'll find too many M3 lurkers here...
My M3 seems to like the M1 0W40, the oil warms up nicely to 210F within 4~5 miles of highway driving, and I can feel power being unleashed since the motor now has to work less pushing the oil around.
The oil temp fluctuated between 210F~215F today while the car was sitting in a bumper to bumper traffic for an hour. Temperature outside the car was around 85F.
How many miles on M1 so far? Have you done any OA on it?
I only have a couple hundred of miles on the oil...will do an uoa when I accumulate around 5k miles. I might be pulling s*&t outta my butt, but I think my motor will wear nicely.
Quoting a fellow forum member on m3post.com, who also switched to a lighter oil.
"That's normal. I have seen 270F from time to time, as soon as it's not in limp mode, it should be fine. Just change fluid after that.
I had used Motul V300 10w40 for 8 hours track time in Infineon, Buttonwillow and LVMS, the highest temp was around 270F, plus 5k miles on normal driving. The oil analysis from Blackstone Lab said the oil was still in good condition, the wear metals looked very good on S65 engine, and they recommended I can use for a couple of thousands miles more for next oil change. But still, oil is cheap, I prefer changing it sooner."
Of course M1 0W40 ain't no Motul 300V, but this tells me weight probably won't be the issue, just the quality of the blend.
Quoting a fellow forum member on m3post.com, who also switched to a lighter oil.
"That's normal. I have seen 270F from time to time, as soon as it's not in limp mode, it should be fine. Just change fluid after that.
I had used Motul V300 10w40 for 8 hours track time in Infineon, Buttonwillow and LVMS, the highest temp was around 270F, plus 5k miles on normal driving. The oil analysis from Blackstone Lab said the oil was still in good condition, the wear metals looked very good on S65 engine, and they recommended I can use for a couple of thousands miles more for next oil change. But still, oil is cheap, I prefer changing it sooner."
Of course M1 0W40 ain't no Motul 300V, but this tells me weight probably won't be the issue, just the quality of the blend.
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The S65 engine is the result of huge numbers of man-hours and millions of dollars of R&D by some of the best people in the business. Castrol TWS 10w-60 is descended from decades of cutting-edge development and a long and very successful racing history, and was developed in cooperation between Castrol and BMW M, alongside the S65 and other M engines. Think about that when you consider whether to deviate from TWS on the basis of a few tidbits of forum wisdom, some seat-of-the-pants impressions, and a $20 UOA.
270º F is something like 30º F short of the temperature at which the engine will shut down. At that temperature, even Castrol TWS 10w-60 is awfully thin; any xw-40 will be much thinner. To put it another way: TWS frequently ends up in the xw-40 viscosity range by the end of a 10,000-15,000 mile oil change interval; running an xw-40 at the track is in that respect like running factory oil that is 10,000-15,000 miles old. Seems like a big gamble to take with such an expensive and high-revving engine.
As for Blackstone UOAs: they are not bad for getting an indication of how long your oil change intervals should be, but despite Blackstone's comments they are not very useful for determining wear. ICP spectroscopy only goes so far on its own; high numbers don't necessarily mean high wear, and low numbers don't necessarily mean all is well. If you really want an oil analysis package that will help you know how your engine is wearing, you need a lab that does rotrode spectroscopy and/or a PQ index. Those methods aren't perfect either, but they give you a much better basis than ICP alone.
270º F is something like 30º F short of the temperature at which the engine will shut down. At that temperature, even Castrol TWS 10w-60 is awfully thin; any xw-40 will be much thinner. To put it another way: TWS frequently ends up in the xw-40 viscosity range by the end of a 10,000-15,000 mile oil change interval; running an xw-40 at the track is in that respect like running factory oil that is 10,000-15,000 miles old. Seems like a big gamble to take with such an expensive and high-revving engine.
As for Blackstone UOAs: they are not bad for getting an indication of how long your oil change intervals should be, but despite Blackstone's comments they are not very useful for determining wear. ICP spectroscopy only goes so far on its own; high numbers don't necessarily mean high wear, and low numbers don't necessarily mean all is well. If you really want an oil analysis package that will help you know how your engine is wearing, you need a lab that does rotrode spectroscopy and/or a PQ index. Those methods aren't perfect either, but they give you a much better basis than ICP alone.
For the record, I share the intuition that Mobil 1 0w-40 is a fine oil for this engine if you're not actually driving it as it was meant to be driven (i.e. track time and/or constant felony speeding). Whether it's as good as (or better than) TWS is another matter, of course. I'm just saying that the rationale shown here is not enough to make a definitive claim. We have to be very careful about when we are guessing and when we have good grounds to speak definitively.
Living where you do there's no reason to consider using anything other than 10W-60.
I would understand that 10W60 oil is nowhere available so people go with other oils, but really? You can buy Castrol, Lubro Moly etc online and still people go with XW40!
Now WHAT I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND is that someone is driving M3 and then argues that XW40 is cheaper!!! Really? 50+K car and then they try to save on oil.
Just get Prius then!
Now WHAT I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND is that someone is driving M3 and then argues that XW40 is cheaper!!! Really? 50+K car and then they try to save on oil.
Just get Prius then!
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Fantastic video!
I suppose any oil with HTHS right around TWS's 5.4 would be fine. Redline 5w50 is arguably a touch too heavy -- I'd probably thin it out with some of their 0w40 which keeps the VI nice and high.
The engine is not air cooled -- you don't need to run thicker oil just because your climate is warmer.
If you're still under warranty you need to stick with TWS.
Right, and once you're out of warranty use the more sensibly M1 0W-40 for what sounds like a street use only car.
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