List of group 4 synthetic oils?

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Right now it is a lot of city driving, short trips high RPM. The transmission does not like to be in drive (bogs a lot) so I usually drive in 2nd or 3rd. I'm older and wiser so I don't beat the thing. I looked up Redline's NOACK numbers and they have 8 and I believe Amsoil's was much lower. Any opinion between the two?
 
Bogging shouldnt be much of an issue in a 400hp vehicle, unless it weighs about 50k lbs. Its trying to optimize fuel economy by minimizing pumping losses on a big engine.

City driving/short trip means that id go with an OTC syn meeting mfr specs, and change it at the non-severe interval, and check it with UOA. Ill bet it can meet that use profile no issues, and then you can move out from there.
 
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What is the recommended viscosity for your engine? Use that in a good, readily available synthetic. Don't try for extended change intervals for the first few years. Change according to the oil life monitor, if your truck has one.
 
Sammy:

It seems that this thread turned into nothing but speculation and opinion rather than answering your question.

I am not sure who offers a Group 4 oil with no 3 or 5 added. Im not sure anyone will know for sure as the USA mfgs keep this info proprietary for the most part.

If you are looking for the best possible oil readily available for your application, Redline is pretty much your only choice. It will be a Group 5 oil and is extremely stout.

Here is the Redline 5W40 spec:
TYPICAL PROPERTIES

API Service Class SN/SM/SG/CF/CJ-4/CI-4
Viscosity Grade SAE 5W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.1
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 94
Viscosity Index 170
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @*C 55@-30
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
Flash Point, °C 250
Flash Point, °F 480
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 6
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 4.6

Well worth the money. I use it in my HEMI application in summer.
 
Originally Posted By: sammy
I realize during the warranty period I need to change the oil every six months, but I don't mind spending extra to give my Truck better protection because I want to own it for the next twenty years. Any known group 4's for sure, I thought this would be easier? Does anyone market their product as group 4? Thanks again, and thanks for the replies so far.

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Synthetic group IV base oils do not protect any better the any group II, III, V oils today in a internal combustion engine. The times where an "synthetic" base stock would provide superior protection is in the extreme cold or extreme hot end of the spectrum your HEMI is not modified with a turbo and not putting 1000 HP to the tires, and since you are in your warranty period and do not want to extend your drain interval "synthetic" base stocks do not provide superior protection for your application. The most important factor is formulation. Also I know a lot of previous Generation HEMI's on 2500 Rams that have 200-400K on the motor and have used conventional 5W-30 and changed every 6 months that have been abused more often than you will abuse yours. If a group IV base stock is the only thing that will allow you to sleep at night I recommend Amsoil signature series. But if you want to keep and use your pickup for 20 years it will be more important to spend you money on the upkeep of the interior, differentials, transmission, exterior, fuel system, brakes, and spark plugs.
 
Sammy, you raise a couple of good points.

--If your truck is under warranty, you must protect that warranty. Some of the oils under discussion here do not have the paperwork to meet the warranty requirements. Amsoil's best is excellent, but does not meet those paperwork requirements. Neither do Red Line and some of the Royal Purple line and others. Also to best protect your warranty, use only Dodge oil filters, follow Dodge's mileage recommendation, and document the oil change, preferably at a licensed repair shop (including quickie lubes).

--To best protect the engine, as well stated above, use an oil with a proven record of excellent results. Do not hang you hat on any one ingredient--there is no magic bullet for engine longevity.

400 hp and high rpm driving...fun, but no recipe for 200,000 or 300,000 mile engine life.
 
I once asked Silkolene (Fuchs) how much ester was in their Pro 4 Plus (Race Pro S) oil. Their engineer told me that it was very high but that they blend it with other non-esters to make sure the fluid is "well-rounded" and able to work in a variety of applications and environments/situations.

Eventually they revealed it was about 75%, but continued to tell me that the formulation was what separated them from their competitors' ester-based oils.

Torco and Maxima have told me similar things too: look at the formula (as a whole), not a single component.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies, it is obvious the oil companies don't want us to know what their products are made of. it is too bad to because if people like us who are interested in the premier product, if a company proved it to us they were the best, we all would run away with it. It would be a good business decision for an oil company to come out and say I have this X brand and it is fully synthetic and here;'s the proof.

Anyhow, Ken you make some good points, legally speaking I doubt Dodge could deny me warranty as long as I'm using the right weight and grade oil, SAE 5w20. I think it is a good idea to use their oil filters, and because I'm following warranty recommendations I wont be doing extended OCI until the warranty is over, 4.5 years from now.

I think what I ended up deciding on is Redline, the NOACK was different then your weight Jeff, but still better then most at 8. Amsoil seams to be the best in this area but it is 30 dollars more then the redline plus shipping. Auto car superstore has Redline for 105.00 shipped per 12. I can't find Amsoil anywhere close to that even though I signed up with them. I think I will use the Redline until I'm looking for extended OCI's then I will switch to Amsoil.., Thanks Everyone for great advice.
 
Dave one thing, it is a long story but I have absolute proof for me that synthetics protect your engine better because they do not break down like conventional. Since it was proven to me in family vehicles with nobody who had a horse in the race either way, nobody will ever convince me full synthetics don't protect as good.

First I was a witness that a car that had a darkening oil issue was solved by changing to Mobil one, and then in my own Truck that used oil and was darkening quick, I changed to M1 and it was solved. So with all due respect, I am totally sold on synthetics, especially for people who get busy and might not want to change their oil every 3k.

I will give you this, if you change your oil every 3k it hardly matter what you though in there, especially in No Cal where it is warm all year round. My own opinion is that by using a high quality syn oil not only will you extend that oil change but it will still protect better all the way up to 10k p0lus. This is from personal experience almost 20 years. Now, I'm no fool when it comes time to extend my OCI's I will send some sample in to make sure I'm not excessively wearing on my motor. Again thanks everyone for contributing.

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Originally Posted By: sammy
Dave one thing, it is a long story but I have absolute proof for me that synthetics protect your engine better because they do not break down like conventional. Since it was proven to me in family vehicles with nobody who had a horse in the race either way, nobody will ever convince me full synthetics don't protect as good.

First I was a witness that a car that had a darkening oil issue was solved by changing to Mobil one, and then in my own Truck that used oil and was darkening quick, I changed to M1 and it was solved. So with all due respect, I am totally sold on synthetics, especially for people who get busy and might not want to change their oil every 3k.

I will give you this, if you change your oil every 3k it hardly matter what you though in there, especially in No Cal where it is warm all year round. My own opinion is that by using a high quality syn oil not only will you extend that oil change but it will still protect better all the way up to 10k p0lus. This is from personal experience almost 20 years. Now, I'm no fool when it comes time to extend my OCI's I will send some sample in to make sure I'm not excessively wearing on my motor. Again thanks everyone for contributing.

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When was this 1985? Because I have proof from the last 20 years it no longer matters unless you have an application where a synthetic would perform better, in a internal combustion engine over 90% of the time it does not matter, the factors were a synthetic would preform better is if you have turbo that is operating under constant boost, super charger, sub zero operating temperatures, and extended OCI'S. If you have a slugger and this is not the case synthetic base stocks tend to have a better resistance to sludge. But today to meet various auto manufactures requirements, GF-5, and API certs "conventional" oil has a percentage of synthetic base stocks and "synthetic" oil has a percentage of conventional base stock. The line has been blurred and is no longer black and white. Also the formulation has always been more important than one base stock.


But if you really "need" synthetic to fell better contact an Amsoil or Red Line rep ASAP, these are the two companies in North American the only ones I trust that produce a PCMO with a mostly group IV/V base stock.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It was 1990's and it was my sister who had a 4 runner and put a lot of miles on it for sales work. I moved to her area and was detailing her car and changing the oil with dyno. It was near black after 3k all the time, 4 runners are famous for that. She changed to Mobil 1 when I stopped detailing due to my back injury, and even after 5k miles her oil was light amber, every time year after year. I really don't care what anyone says, it was a night and day difference in oil wear and how smooth the car ran. She put over 250k miles on that before handing it down to her son. You can say whatever cr*p you want, you wont change my mind sir. Full synthetics are much much better for anyone who wants to take good care of their car, and especially for people who might have sludge issues. Take the last word, I have the plan and I'm sticking with-it.
 
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Originally Posted By: sammy
Sorry for the newbie question but remember every time a senior member here answers a question, they help someone. I searched but cannot get to my question. I have been using Mobil One forever, but I don't know if it is group 3 or 4. From what I gather it is high quality group 3? Anyhow, using Mobil 1 has taught me and reinforced how good synthetics are even if it isn't the absolute top grade. Can anyone point me in the direction of a couple true group 4 synthetics. Currently I am considering Amsoil but I'm completely open for suggestions.

The reason I want the best oil I can find regardless of cost is because I just purchased a 400HP Hemi and I want to take the best care possible of it. So thanks for everyone who responds in advance, I can use the help!!

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You have been searching in the wrong place your vehicles owners manual.

I am sure you will get an answer.

It may not be the one you think you want but I am sure it will the one you need.
 
You know I read my owners manual and they didn't have a list of true group 4 synthetic oils either. I guess nobody does, not even the smart people here at Bobistheoilguy's.

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Originally Posted By: sammy
You know I read my owners manual and they didn't have a list of true group 4 synthetic oils either.


Manufacturers don't specify "true group 4 synthetic oils" in their manuals, anyhow. They either use API/ILSAC, ACEA, or proprietary specifications, or some combination thereof.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Let's face it manufacturers want two things, to not accept liability when they can get out of it and for you to buy as many new cars as they can sucker you into over your lifetime. They have no interest in preserving your engine for twenty years, but I do. And I know the highest quality oils are group 4 and 5, and possibly group three but there are too many unknowns with companies using group three. Thus is why I thought asking the question for a list of group 4 oils at a website that should be an oil information only website would easily fill my request. "I don't know" is something you don't hear enough in America. I don't care about anybody's opinions, either list group 4 oils or go away. Currently we have two I gather, Redline and Amsoil.

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It was 1990's and it was my sister who had a 4 runner and put a lot of miles on it for sales work. I moved to her area and was detailing her car and changing the oil with dyno. It was near black after 3k all the time, 4 runners are famous for that. She changed to Mobil 1 when I stopped detailing due to my back injury, and even after 5k miles her oil was light amber, every time year after year. I really don't care what anyone says, it was a night and day difference in oil wear and how smooth the car ran. She put over 250k miles on that before handing it down to her son. You can say whatever cr*p you want, you wont change my mind sir. Full synthetics are much much better for anyone who wants to take good care of their car, and especially for people who might have sludge issues. Take the last word, I have the plan and I'm sticking with-it.


Originally Posted By: sammy
You know I read my owners manual and they didn't have a list of true group 4 synthetic oils either. I guess nobody does, not even the smart people here at Bobistheoilguy's.

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The first post is a definition of not smart. But I have had my fair share of "smart" ideas too.
 
7 OMG, that is Fuhunnny. Dave you actually have seven posts trying to convince me to use junk oil and none answering the question in thread. That's funny dude, are you taking some medication that takes away your focus? LOL

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Originally Posted By: sammy
7 OMG, that is Fuhunnny. Dave you actually have seven posts trying to convince me to use junk oil and none answering the question in thread. That's funny dude, are you taking some medication that takes away your focus? LOL

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Sammy, no need to get frustrated or rude - the reason you are not getting a list of oils based on Group IV is because no one knows. The vast majority of oil manufacturers do not disclose what base oils they use. The few that do usually use wiggle words like "contains PAO" or "based on esters", but will not clearly state their oils are exclusively Group IV/V, or do not contain Group III. There are some brands that people here believe are based totally on Group IV and/or Group V, but that belief is based mostly on vague information from the manufacturers, or an attempted interpretation of VOA results, or just hearsay.

The only way to know for sure is to run a gas chromatogram on all the oils out there, but this is not practical. What people here are trying to tell you is that modern Group III base oils are virtually the equivalent of Group IV, and when blended with a strong additive package will perform as well, and your engine will not know the difference. Hence, to most people here it just doesn't matter.

Tom NJ
 
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