March 03 L'nG Article on Drain Intervals

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Wow - that guy (McFall) has a pair of huevos.

Now THAT is taking on "the Establishment".

Mobil is shackled by API....and money...and...

I don't know if the article is on the web or not, but the mag is FREE for those with a toe in the industry. A real bargain.
 
Oh sorry, me bad.

Sometimes I get all wrapped up in the acronyms and vernacular, but really I always think I'm under everyone's "knowledge level" here
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Lubes and Greases - LNG Publishing
 
Ha! I would love to read that. But even if I was somehow able to weasel a free subscription, it would be too late to get that article. Got a scanner?
 
I have a scanner but it's a pain in the rump to scan mag articles and save the images in some readable format. The crappy HP text recognition doesn't really work.
 
About Pennzoil High Milage Vehicle "Despite providing extra performance characteristics for newer cars beond the latest API service catagory(SL) and additional protection for older cars,the drain interval for this superior product is not mentioned.Why? "Silence reigns-except for JiffyLube's media saturation blitz,3'000 mi. for a well oiled machine"...."As it prepares to unroll GF 4 oils next year,extended drain capability gets,and will keep getting,railroaded onto a remote,dead-end sidetrack." a very porwerful article indeed.
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Note: This article from Lubes and Greases magazine on the state of the US lubrication industry is now available for viewing in PDF format on the Amsoil Corporate Website, ie:
Lubes N Greases Reprint (157k PDF)

It's an interesting read about why 3000 mile change intervals are still the norm in the US and why extended drain oils haven't completely taken over the marketplace.

TooSlick

[ May 09, 2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Good article. The only dispute with the article I'd have is do we really see enough consistant data to really start telling people 12k + intervals are safe? Take a look at the UOA and I think it's a bit sketchy. Hey, hats off to Amsoil, the article really commended the oil. You have to give them credit for going against the grain. Good job Al!!
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Forgot to mention, the US seems to be in a stange situation. We are going in the 0w-20 direction while other countries are going in the long drain direction. Can we have it both ways with 0w-20 oils?

[ April 12, 2003, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
I have to post again, at what point will yucky oil increase the wear of the engine ,if nitration oxidation an up or down in viscosity will start to matter then for example the amsoil 25,000 mile 1 year may be valid if oil is yucky up to a point? This is something I have been starting to wonder about. Then comes the bypass and long drain subject yucky but cleaned oil . So complicated but cheaper than a boat.
 
Steve,

It's a bit hard to relate absolute numbers for oxidation and nitration with increases in wear rates. Oxidation will result in thickening of the oil - normally if it thickens more than 20% in an extended drain application, I'd recommend changing it. Nitration is the precurser to the formation of nitric acid, which depletes the TBN. I would normally recommend a lower limit of 4.0 for TBN, using the ASTM D-4739 method, or a lower limit of 6.0 for TBN, using the ASTM D-2896 method that Blackstone Lab uses.

Antiwear additives such as phosphorus and zinc will show up in the analysis, even if they have become inactive from use. However, ZDDP also prevents oil oxidation and thickening, so if the oil is getting very thick it's a sign that these that the ZDDP has been depleted and the oil should be changed. The recent 23,000 mile oil analysis of the Amsoil 5w-30 in that 5.3L GM V-8 is a good example of oil that is used up.

TooSlick
 
Thanks TS, for sharing the link with those of us who aren't getting LnG.

Question: Does David McFall sell Amsoil?

While I agree that marketing plays an integral part in teaching the general public about extending oil drains, devoting 1/2 the article to marketing practices seemed a little "unbalanced" for an industry rag. The fact that a full 1/4 of the article promoted Amsoil while conveniently ignoring or biasing certain information only reinforced my feeling of "Advertisement!"
 
quote:

Originally posted by buster:
Forgot to mention, the US seems to be in a stange situation. We are going in the 0w-20 direction while other countries are going in the long drain direction. Can we have it both ways with 0w-20 oils?

Very good point that the article fails to touch on. Although extended drains are feasible it is interesting to note that the vast majority of oil anslysis on this board would indicate that anything beyond 10,000 is iffy and depends on the engine and driving conditions. However, in most cases 10,000 could be achieved but then we have the issue of the lighter weights.
 
The problem is who actually dictates the oil drain interval? On regular oil, 3k is about right. I think if every car started using synthetic as factory fill, we would see more extended drain intervals like the Corvette. I really dont' think Mobil makes most of there money in Synthetics. Can you imagine the fight between the oil companies to try and win over automakers to use there synlube as factory fill?
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Greg Netzer wrote:

quote:

Question: Does David McFall sell Amsoil?

No he doesn't.

Also PLEASE don't assume that the article posted on the Amsoil website is the full article from Lube n' Greases - it certainly is not. It's just snippets - this may answer your concerns about the hype.

[ April 15, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
WARNING WARNING WARNING

The surface article posted on the Amsoil website is NOT the full article in Lubes 'n Greases!!!!!!!!!!!!

While it quotes McFall properly, it's just selected portions. All the Amsoil hype is NOT in the real article that you read by clicking on the link to the PDF as TS mentions.

[ April 15, 2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
I also recommend getting a copy of the original article ...I think it presents a more balanced view of the industry. It's still pretty hard on ExxonMobil however ....

TooSlick
 
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