Gallon oil vs Bulk oil?

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Hello all, and thanks in advance for answers whether they be fact or opinion. I have come accross a couple of potential customers as side work that daily drive the air-cooled VW bug in So Calif. Both cars leak/consume a bit more oil than the normal. I had recently been to a couple of the OTR truck stores here in So Cal and noticed they sell bulk diesel 15w-40 weight oil for approx $10-11 per gallon vs the current price of $18 per gallon for the Delo/Rotella/Delvac oils. Would you encourage me to endorse this bulk oil for these applications, based on the viscosity/climate here, additive pack for flat tappet cams, and cost per qt to the customer?
Short of a VOA, do the bulk oils match the mfg's specs for additives or will the important additives sink to the bottom of the container?
 
If you're only dealing with a "couple" of vehicles with small sumps, IMO, just buy the gallon jugs, as needed, when on sale.

Right now there is a sale at AZ on the diesel Dino oils like Rotella, Delo, Delvac etc...in 15w-40, if that is what you choose to use. IMO...It's much easier to store and pour from the Jugs than a 5 Gallon pail of HDEO.
 
I've had good results in VW engines and other older engines for that matter using the bulk oil from AP Fischer Lubricants in Long Beach. I take gallon jugs and fill them myself. Either straight 30 or 15w-40 HDEO is 10 bucks and change for a gallon.
 
I've used bulk diesel oil for years, and also had to purchase gallons/5 gallon pail of the same manufacturer, and have never seen a difference in a UOA.

So to answer your question I don't think you'll be able to see any differences, it should be the same oil. Just because its coming from a larger container doesn't mean its inferior.
 
Hey all. 46Harry, AP Fisher is exactly where I was eyeballing the bulk tanks and their prices. And thanks for the referral to them for the gear oils and greases. Danny was not able to completely help me but referred me to their distributor. But the distrib was not able to give me any concrete info.
Doug, sir, I agree that the straight weights are an option, but even VW and Porsche has not endorsed straight weights for the air cooled engines since, I believe, the mid '70's. When I started with VW in 1973 we used straight 30wt, and I believe the Porsche store used straight 40wt. Since then it seems everyone has transitioned to a multi-grade, of various viscosities. I am currently using a HDEO 15w-40 from either Shell or Chevron in my daily driver '71 bus (7qt system with Prolator full flow and Bawin by-pass filters). Though, I initially seated the Web Cams reground with Rotella 30wt. Some straight weights are a bit difficult to locate even here in Los Angeles, without driving.
 
VWguy, I spoke with Ray Baughmann, the owner of AP Fischer the other day and he says their bulk oils are as good as the name brands and have around 1300ppm of zinc so they are a good choice for older engines with flat tappet cams. I've been using it in the VW's that I maintain and also in the older water cooled engines with flat tappet cams.
 
I just posted this on another link, but this seems a good place to ask it again: What is the oil pressure on a healthy air cooled VW Beetle engine, when hot?
 
jugs/pails are filled from bulk tanks at a packaging factory.

I would use whatever is most convenient.
 
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Originally Posted By: mongo161
If you're only dealing with a "couple" of vehicles with small sumps, IMO, just buy the gallon jugs, as needed, when on sale.

Right now there is a sale at AZ on the diesel Dino oils like Rotella, Delo, Delvac etc...in 15w-40, if that is what you choose to use. IMO...It's much easier to store and pour from the Jugs than a 5 Gallon pail of HDEO.


I totally agree with your thinking here. A couple years ago, or less, the HDEO oils were about 10 dollars a gallon on sale for the big three(chevron,mobil,shell) but that's aLl changed with these gallons now retailing for 17dollars per gallon(excluding walmart).
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
I've used bulk diesel oil for years, and also had to purchase gallons/5 gallon pail of the same manufacturer, and have never seen a difference in a UOA.

So to answer your question I don't think you'll be able to see any differences, it should be the same oil. Just because its coming from a larger container doesn't mean its inferior.


It was never my intention to infer that bulk oil was inferior. Just curious if the additives settle to the bottom and I get my moneys worth. Bill
 
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
VWguy, I spoke with Ray Baughmann, the owner of AP Fischer the other day and he says their bulk oils are as good as the name brands and have around 1300ppm of zinc so they are a good choice for older engines with flat tappet cams. I've been using it in the VW's that I maintain and also in the older water cooled engines with flat tappet cams.


As you suggested, I was down there a few weeks ago and worked with their counter man, Danny. Quite helpful. And I was able to view the variety of bulk oil tanks near the counter. Thanks bro. Since you say you serviced some air cooled VW's, I wonder if we know each other. Small world indeed, even in LA! Bill
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
I just posted this on another link, but this seems a good place to ask it again: What is the oil pressure on a healthy air cooled VW Beetle engine, when hot?


When I was a dealer tech and attended VWoA's schools they never discussed oil pressure in a "fresh engine". The VW Service without Guesswork manual states the following: oil pressure with 30 wt oil at an oil temp of 158degrees F( 70 degrees C) at 2500rpm, the "new part" oil pressure would be 42psi and the "wear limit" would be 28psi.
I hope this answers your question. There are so many variables with all the parts interchangeability and aftermarket stuff. Bill
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
I just posted this on another link, but this seems a good place to ask it again: What is the oil pressure on a healthy air cooled VW Beetle engine, when hot?


10 psi at idle at operating temp. 5psi at idle is I believe the lowermost allowed limit. The oil warning light opens up at 3 psi.
 
VWguy, we may know each other, I've lived and worked in the South Bay since the 60's. I've been buying lubricants from Fischer for the past 30 years and still buy lubricants from them for the 2 class 8 trucks we still use to haul freight in the 48 states. Harry
 
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
jugs/pails are filled from bulk tanks at a packaging factory.

I would use whatever is most convenient.

Years ago GM sent out a TSB asking dealers not to use bulk oil in their service departments. I think the reason was "additive fallout". While containers are filled at the factory from bulk, my guess is that the bulk lube has not been in a "static state" for an extended period of time. I agitate my oil before it goes into my cars at time of change.
 
Quote:
Years ago GM sent out a TSB asking dealers not to use bulk oil in their service departments. I think the reason was "additive fallout". While containers are filled at the factory from bulk, my guess is that the bulk lube has not been in a "static state" for an extended period of time. I agitate my oil before it goes into my cars at time of change.


I mentioned this a while back ago and several disagreed with me.
 
I didn't see anyone mention this... but most Oil makers give their oil a 1 year shelf life... so I'd say as long as you will use 5G in a year, that's a fine way to buy. I go though about 10G a year, so if I could land a bulk deal, I'd go for it.
 
The first issue I see with bulk oil is contamination. The oil goes from the bending tank to a truck and then to a storage tank. Might even be another step in that process. This might be less of a worry if the end user has some sort of filtration process going on as the oil is dispensed. In my experience, some places do, some don't. Bottled oil is dirty enough but some of the contamination analysis I've see so far on bulk oil is more than a bit scary and significantly more grunged-up than bottled. My sample base is small, so I honestly don't know the extent of this issue but if you start searching, you will see it come up as an issue in industry sources.

In a vented container, oxidation is intensified as well, so I would think the storage life of bulk oil is somewhat reduced vs bottled as well. How much is unclear to me, though since I have run oil for three years in some of my equipment and seen little deterioration, it may not be much of an issue. In a bulk tank, the anti-oxidents in the older oil will get regular replenishment from the new oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Gillsy
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
jugs/pails are filled from bulk tanks at a packaging factory.

I would use whatever is most convenient.

Years ago GM sent out a TSB asking dealers not to use bulk oil in their service departments. I think the reason was "additive fallout". While containers are filled at the factory from bulk, my guess is that the bulk lube has not been in a "static state" for an extended period of time. I agitate my oil before it goes into my cars at time of change.


I deliver oil to local car dealers. We pump oil every week, and often twice a week at the busier dealers. The local Chevy dealer goes through 5-9 drums of dexos1 full synthetic per week. At that rate, there is no chance of additive settling. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter, because in every step (tanker truck/train car to bulk storage tank, to drum, to lube shop tank, to the sump of your car) the feed line is in the bottom of the tank.

Modern oils have very little additive fallout at all, even after very extended storage periods. It isn't anything to worry about.
 
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