Questions about UCL

[RedCorvette]

I've read a lot of posts mentioning UCL's.

My questions

1) If UCL is so good, why are they not mentioned by the manufacturers as part of maintenence. Is it because they make an engine last "too long" preventing future sales? The fact that powertrains have longer warranties already suggests an engine will outlast the car without UCL.

2) What are the recommended UCL's and the recommended treatment regimen?

Thanks!

 

[oggb]

TC-W3 (ashless two-stroke oil) at 2 ounces per five gallons of gas. I've used it in my Mirage and my Subaru - doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

 

[MrRPM]

I use TC-W3 in my jeep at around 1oz for every 5 gallons and It runs great but no big difference then regular gas.
I have also run Marvel mystery oil at 2oz for every 5 gallons, again ran great but with no major difference to regular gas.

so I just go with the cheaper one since I'm using it based of faith and theory that its working as a UCL.

so for me that means TC-W3 since it talks half the dosage for only 1 dollar more per quart

 

[Loobed]

I am not sure about UCLs, but GM recommends a fuel conditioner every 3000 miles to protect the sending unit coil in the fuel tank. They recommend Chevron Techron. GM re-bottled Chevron Techron.


GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, P/N 88861011 (for U.S. ACDelco®, use 88861013) (in Canada, 88861012).

 

[cancov]

Originally Posted By: MrRPM
I use TC-W3 in my jeep at around 1oz for every 5 gallons and It runs great but no big difference then regular gas.
I have also run Marvel mystery oil at 2oz for every 5 gallons, again ran great but with no major difference to regular gas.

so I just go with the cheaper one since I'm using it based of faith and theory that its working as a UCL.

so for me that means TC-W3 since it talks half the dosage for only 1 dollar more per quart

I've done similar, both MMO and TCW3 with no noticeable results in my '11 Corolla. Check my link in my signature for a mileage log using each respective additive. I actually got the best mileage with the tank in between additives with relatively no additive.

Oh, and the TCW-3 that I used was the Pennzoil Marine in the Pennzoil Yellow, 1-qt bottle, found at WalMart, down the marine isle, for approximately $5.50. I dosed at around 1oz/5gal.

 

[RedCorvette]

I wasn't actually asking in the context of fuel economy. More in the context of engine longevity.

I have a couple of cars that get short trips. So am wondering if they would benefit from some sort of protection as they don't reach operating temperature.

 

[snowmaker]

what is cheaper MMO or Tcw3?

 

[mongo161]

Most, if not all, people who use a UCL do so to offset any harmful effects of ethanol in the gasoline and lube the fuel system and upper cylinder.

If people do get better gas mileage from running a UCL....more power to them.

I run a mix, small dose of TC-W3 and fuel system cleaner, at each fill up of 15 gallons of regular unleaded gas. My blended mix is only 3 ounces of each with the TC-W3 as a UCL and the 3 ounces of fuel system cleaner as a maintenance dose. IMO...I feel that a maintenance dose of fuel system cleaner, at each fill up, is better than a large dose once or twice a year.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: JRed
TC-W3 (ashless two-stroke oil) at 2 ounces per five gallons of gas. I've used it in my Mirage and my Subaru - doesn't seem to make much of a difference.


There is some debate as to whether any of these additives "do anything." Ive made cocktails and massively ODd them.. some people say that just the gasoline is cleaner enough. Nowadays im not so sure.. quality is going down hill again as to fuel.

Its a toss-up.

With modern fuel injection, I have leaned towards trying to make the additives in the gas strongest if adding things like Seafoam.. Seafoam being "mid-strength" B12 being "strong.." if it gets crud burned out through the exhaust then its fine with me.

Hopefully it all "dissolves" crud on injectors during the course of the engine operating. Heard it takes in roughly the same amount under load as idling or WOT, so.

 

[Dupree]

I have never changed a fuel pump or even injectors on a modern vehicle (only mechanical fuel pumps ever). This would include my 94 Subaru 180k, and past vehicles such as 90 tempo awd 130k,89 escort gt 360k, 96 jeep zj 140k. not sure if the MMO has helped or not, but 360k seems like a long time for a fuel pump to roll on

 

[MrRPM]

Originally Posted By: snowmaker
what is cheaper MMO or Tcw3?


I use Pennzoil marine tc-w3 in 1 qt containers and its 5.50
dosage for this is 1oz every 5 gallons.

MMO for a 1qt container is around 4.50
dosage for this is 2oz every 5 gallons.

both of these prices are walmart

 

[hitmanharleyk]

I buy MMO at walmart in the 1 gallon container and if my math in correct, it is less than $0.11 a ounce before taxes. Adding to a 20 gallon fill-up it is $0.88 (4 ounces per 10 gallons).

I run Marvel in every engine I have, it has made a huge difference in how my small engines run and I've seen a slight increase in fuel mileage in my truck.

It was recommended to me by a lawnmower shop, they said it was the best additive out there in their opinion.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: JRed
TC-W3 (ashless two-stroke oil) at 2 ounces per five gallons of gas. I've used it in my Mirage and my Subaru - doesn't seem to make much of a difference.


If it works for you, good, but most would say that two oz of tc-w3 should be used in 10 gallons, not 5. MMO on the other hand is typically used 2 per 5. YMMV

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette
I've read a lot of posts mentioning UCL's.

My questions

1) If UCL is so good, why are they not mentioned by the manufacturers as part of maintenence. Is it because they make an engine last "too long" preventing future sales? The fact that powertrains have longer warranties already suggests an engine will outlast the car without UCL.
Thanks!


I'm with you RE: auto manufacturers never made any outright recommendation/endorsements RE: the need of something called UCL right from the research and development level of their engine work, thus there's never any written/authorised factory endorsements on things that claimed to provide UCL in typical 4-cycle, internal reciprocal engine designs.

Also: these so-called OTC additives that claimed UCL benefits when mixed with gas seems to exist a lot on shelves of NA retailers, not so much (not even heard of that) in other countries such as Germany, Japan, etc.

Warranty issues? Don't think so.Claimed benefits (of lubricating the upper cylinder area, reduce electrical fuel pump whine/wear, compensate the effects of ethanol in blended gasoline?....) All unsubstantiated claims with no real research quality results to back them up so far.

Unless the car owner starve the fuel pump by intentionally drive their fuel tank dry (which will wear out the pump), otherwise: I have yet to come across a factory fuel pump that would die prematurely in the course of the natural automobile service life (typically over 150~250kkms clocked)....Also: I have yet to see any so-called claimed benefits of reducing upper cylinder wear (all IC engines, including diesels, will eventually develop the "Taper shaped" wear as they reap up their mileage, and that's the fact).

Lastly: automobile body, suspension, etc. would wear out far sooner than a properly (yet conservatively) maintained engine these days, so bottomline: why add these otc additives into your gas?

Q.

in research terms: we call that "placebo" effect.

 

[mechtech2]

We know that 2 stroke engines lube the top and bottom ends by only oil in the gas. The stuff has incredible lubricity in small amounts.
So a bit in the fuel WILL lube anything it touches - it can't be otherwise. Pump, injectors, valve guides and some valve sealing, rings/bores.
MMO is not as good of a lube, but does lube and clean.

Fuel pumps?
Of course they have to last longer with good lubing, esp. vs. alcohol infused fuels.

At WORST it is a bit of insurance.

 

[ledslinger]

TCW3 oil is impressive in its ability to lube in low doses. We normally think of it lubing in a vapor state, as in downstream of the carb, but it must do some lubricating before it is vaporized in fuel pumps. Some add it to diesels to lube pumps and injectors.

I think the aspect of adding small doses of TCW3 oil to 4 stroke engines that could be actually measured is it's additives ability to clean combustion chambers, valve and ports. Two strokes benefit from cleaning agents to reduce deposits in ports and to keep rings free.

Engines seem to last hundreds of thousands of miles without UCLs, so they certainly aren't needed, but I know of no research testing if they reduce wear.

 

[SOHCman]

Another bennefit of tcw3 may be preventing corrosion in a sitting engine/rarely driven car. Have you ever noticed that there is no need to spray a preservative oil into the cylinder of a 2 stroke, but it is recommended for storage of a 4 stroke? the oil is already there...

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Quest

Also: these so-called OTC additives that claimed UCL benefits when mixed with gas seems to exist a lot on shelves of NA retailers, not so much (not even heard of that) in other countries such as Germany, Japan, etc.



Germany doesn't have [censored] alcohol laced gas.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Quest

Also: these so-called OTC additives that claimed UCL benefits when mixed with gas seems to exist a lot on shelves of NA retailers, not so much (not even heard of that) in other countries such as Germany, Japan, etc.



Germany doesn't have [censored] alcohol laced gas.



k. let's put aside the E10 gas in NA for the time being.

Take a look at Honda Civic: gen 7 civic (1.7L D17A1) actually in NA, carries an LNG version of civic available to certain states. Knowing full well that LNG, unlike liquid (gasoline, diesel, etc.), is in gas state, it doesn't even come with any form of lubricity within. Should you, in that case, add UCL into it? Will that be of any lubricity (or the lack of) concerns?

I think the negative aspects of ethanol in gas in NA has been blown out of proportion (mostly by armchair mechanics, etc.). Don't forget that Brazil has been running gashol (gasoline mixed with sugar cane derived alcohol) for many decades already (vividly recalled those air-cooled VeeDoubleU bug taxis burning gashol, or in our case: we have been running E10 gas in this region for over 25 yrs(since the mid-80s, Mohawk and Husky, for example). Never seen/experienced any accelerated cylinder bore wear (I have mechanically-inspected a few of these vehicles that I serviced during head-related works) nor premature wear of fuel pumps (I still stand corrected that granted that no running fuel tank dry to burn out the fuel pump, your factory OE fuel pump should lasts a healthy 20yr+ easily).

UCL properties is way overblown/exaggerated. Ditto with E10 (scare of E10? haa...you've been brainwashed by special-interest groups)
Q.

 

[mechtech2]

Don't forget that car Mfrs. recommend early oil changes with high alcohol fuels.
And alcohol vs. gasoline as a lube for the pump is a no brainer.