Dexron VI for Toyota Type T-IV?

[batook]

I am working on a friend's 2001 Echo, which calls for Toyota Type T-IV. I was looking at ATF options at Wal-Mart, and saw that Supertech Multi-vehicle formula meets T-IV, but so does the ST Dexron VI, which also meets Toyota WS. I decided to pick up 4 quarts of the ST Dex VI, because I think it's at least a partial syn, but now I am wondering if I should be using something else. Should I just get the Genuine Toyota T-IV for about $6/qt instead of the ST Dex VI at $4.40? I thnk I've read here before that Toyota's T-IV isn't all that great though. What about adding Lubegard Red? Anyone tried it with the Toyota fluid?

Thanks

 

[meangreen01]

T-IV has been discussed in depth here. If you search there are many threads that are full of discussions about it's quality/substitutes.

I can say I've never heard of anyone using Dex VI as a substitute, though. Some have used Redline(D4, IIRC. Check to be sure), others have used Castrol Import multi-vehicle ATF. Results are a mixed bag. I'm of the opinion there is no one-size-fits-all substitute for T-IV, and it's a good idea to stick with it and keep it fresh with a drain/fill every 30-50k miles.

$6/qt is a little on the steep side. Call around to other dealers. Ford and Mazda also sell T-IV(under a different name/part #). You should be able to find it for around $4.50-$5.

 

[dwcopple]

Just paid $4.30/qt for Toy T-IV at dealer

 

[batook]

Thanks. I remember reading some threads on T-IV in the past here but the threads that turned up weren't really relevant when I tried to search, even with "T-IV" in quotes.

I'll call around and see if I can source some cheaper T-IV from one of the dealers around here if that's really the best stuff to use in this app. What about adding the LGR to it?

 

[weebl]

Dealerships besides Toyota, Lexus or Scion that would carry T-IV would be any automaker that has had cars with Aisin transmissions. Those include Ford, Mazda, Volvo, GM. Believe there are some others as well. The T-IV specification is also know as JWS3309. You can use Mobil 3309, which in North America, is the exact same stuff sold at dealerships for the T-IV/JWS3309 application, as they are the only licenced North American supplier as far as I'm aware.

Idemitsu also makes an approved T-IV/JWS3309 fluid, which may be hard to find, called "ATF Type TLS." I can't even find anything on their website about it.

Many others have used something other than T-IV/JWS3309 and claim success. Not something I'm comfortable doing, but if you are satisifed, I believe some of those include Mobil 1, Valvoline MaxLife as well as a Petro-Canada ATF (can't recall which one).

I just keep a shorter OCI myself when using T-IV. I know it has its shortcomings (accused of being a very average ATF), but I don't feel they are serious enough to warrant trying something else.

As for LGR, I've never used it, so I have no comment.

 

[Robenstein]

I have a Scion TC that calls for Type IV. I laughed cause on the dipstick it says that its a lifetime fluid and does not need servicing before 90k miles. I changed it out the first time at 40k and used Valvoline Maxlife which claims to meet the specs and is a GRP III synthetic. It worked, but I did not like the feel. I ended up going back to T-IV in less than 20k miles. Shop around. Mobil also makes an ATF for the AW transmissions that is said to work well, but it was not easily available in my area so I had to hit the dealer. Cost me about 6 bucks per quart too.

 

[Rican]

I would just save the headache and replace it with T-IV from the dealership, shouldn't be much. Two years ago I replaced my wife's tC (75k miles at the time) fluid with fresh oil and new filter. We had planned driving from Houston, TX to LA, California. Initially it felt great just like new, smooth shifting and all. A month after we got back, I got to drive the car and it was back to it's old self. Not bad by any means, but a bit of a delay between shifts.

My mistake was to replace only the amount of oil in the pan, I never drained the oil cooler. Hopefully next time I will and the new transmission feel will last longer.

 

[Spazdog]

I stopped using T-IV a long time ago.

Valvoline Max-Life ATF had a noticeable change in shift quality.

On just T-IV, it would often bang hard on the downshift coming out of a corner and sometimes after cresting a hill in 5th it would "forget" to shift back up to 6th until I moved the selector to the manual gate and selected 6th.

It hasn't done that since I changed from T-IV. It still has some T-IV in it, but it's had a few changes since then so the T-IV %-age has gone down. I've put nearly 100,000 miles on it. Shifts well, no judder, no hanging up in fifth.

 

[batook]

The dealer charged me $6.22 for the T-IV today. I think the Valvoline Max-Life at Wal-mart is $5/qt. What vehicle did you use it in? Sounds like you had a 6speed and this is just a little 4-speed. Anyway, I have heard that the T-IV isn't that great, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Max-Life performed better. Is it just a dexron/mercon blend or what?

 

[EricF]

my neighbor's corolla has uses t-iv, and I do her oil changes every 6000mi (she uses castrol conventional).
I checked the dipstick the first time, she was at 44k when I did the oil change for her, and t-iv looked purple and didn't smell burnt, but I did a pan drain & fill, which was like 2 1/2 quarts.
at 6000 miles the fluid was a purple again (which to me looked burnt again). I did another drain & refill, (using mobil 3309).
each 6000 the fluid looks burnt to me. I've been swapping ATF with OCI as well.
I've seen this on a friends sienna with AWD, I honestly don't believe it's a normal thing.. I believe the fluid just isn't designed to last very long.

 

[batook]

Originally Posted By: EricF
I've been swapping ATF with OCI as well.
I've seen this on a friends sienna with AWD, I honestly don't believe it's a normal thing.. I believe the fluid just isn't designed to last very long.

That's very concerning. This car is 11 years old and has about 150k miles and is on the FF for all major fluids as far as I know (transmission, coolant, p/s). The ATF is purple/brown, but not black, and there are no transmission problems. Hopefully a flush with new T-IV will help prevent any trouble from starting...

 

[dwcopple]

color isn't everything you know

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I stopped using T-IV a long time ago.

Valvoline Max-Life ATF had a noticeable change in shift quality.

On just T-IV, it would often bang hard on the downshift coming out of a corner and sometimes after cresting a hill in 5th it would "forget" to shift back up to 6th until I moved the selector to the manual gate and selected 6th.

It hasn't done that since I changed from T-IV. It still has some T-IV in it, but it's had a few changes since then so the T-IV %-age has gone down. I've put nearly 100,000 miles on it. Shifts well, no judder, no hanging up in fifth.

How do you know the improvement is with the Max-Life and not from the fact the you changed out the old fluid? How do you know that new T-IV couldn't also improve your shift quality?

 

[Spazdog]

Because the first change at 30,000 was with the recommended T-IV and there was no difference. It still would "forget" to upshift back to 6th occasionally and forced you to use the manual gate in spirited cornering or be real light and deliberate with the accelerator.

2nd at 60,000 was with Castrol Multi-Import and it immediately ceased to do the hang up in 5th thing.

3rd and 4th were at 90,000 and 120,000 with Valvoline Max-Life and it hasn't done the BANG! downshift leaving a corner since.

It could be that the transmission was just getting broken in. I like that it took 90,000 miles to break in my transmission, but I know that's not as likely as using a better fluid caused an improvement.

 

[Eddie]

I would use the T-IV from the dealer. However, WalMarts carries Castrol ATF for imported cars that says it is spec for T-IV.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: batook
The dealer charged me $6.22 for the T-IV today. I think the Valvoline Max-Life at Wal-mart is $5/qt. What vehicle did you use it in? Sounds like you had a 6speed and this is just a little 4-speed. Anyway, I have heard that the T-IV isn't that great, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Max-Life performed better. Is it just a dexron/mercon blend or what?


It's in the Mazda. (The Chrysler gets ATF+4) Aisin 6-speed. Used in everything from the Land Rover Evoque to the Ford Mondeo to the Volvo XC90. Spec'd for T-IV

I don't remember where I read that the MaxLife would improve shift quality and met T-IV standards. Might have been here on BITOG. But I took a chance and have been pleased since.

 

[batook]

I'm just going to use the Toyota T-IV. The cost of the MaxLife is about the same as the dealer's price for the OEM fluid. I was looking at LubeGard products at O'Reilly. They have the LGR, but also LubeGard Black, which claims to add the friction modifers needed to convert Dex3 to T-IV. While LG is the only additive maker I'd trust with that claim, just using the actual T-IV so I can be sure the fluid is correct makes the most sense to me. I did buy a bottle of LGR and will use it to enhance the T-IV though for lower temps and hopefully smoother shifts. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Tones]

Not to be a downer here but first you say you want to be sure the fluid is correct, then you say you will add the LG? That makes no sense to me. I suggest you forget about the LG. You can also pick a far better fluid that TIV. However, if you change it often enough the TIV should be fine.

 

[RF Overlord]

Not sure why all the hubbub about finding a replacement for T-IV. Unless changing the fluid is very difficult in your transaxle, doing a simple drain & fill every 30,000 miles should be child's play. In my niece's '06 Fusion, there's a drain plug on the bottom and doing a drain & fill is actually easier than changing the engine oil.
Originally Posted By: meangreen01
I'm of the opinion there is no one-size-fits-all substitute for T-IV, and it's a good idea to stick with it and keep it fresh with a drain/fill every 30-50k miles.
Agreed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Tones
Not to be a downer here but first you say you want to be sure the fluid is correct, then you say you will add the LG? That makes no sense to me. I suggest you forget about the LG. You can also pick a far better fluid that TIV. However, if you change it often enough the TIV should be fine.


Someone is not very familiar with LG and their FACTORY approved products. Not typical additives, and extremely beneficial to most any slushbox.

And in the same post you mention a different, 'better' fluid? A bit of a contradiction eh?