Mobil 1 5W/30, 10,200mi, 2010 F150 4.6L

[dnewton3]

The following links to F series official Ford manuals:
For the sake of brevity, I didn't list all of them, but feel free to seek out others.

1998 - 5w30 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOWF12/~MUS~LEN/36/98f12og1e.pdf

1999 - 5w30 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOXF12/~MUS~LEN/36/99f12og1e.pdf

2000 - 5w20 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOYF12/~MUS~LEN/36/00f12og5e.pdf

2002 - 5w-20 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO2F12/~MUS~LEN/36/02f12og3e.pdf

2004 F250 - only 5w-20 grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO4F23/~MUS~LEN/36/04f23og3e.pdf

2006 F350 - only 5w-20 listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO6F23/~MUS~LEN/36/06f23og2e.pdf


Now, I don't work at Ford any longer, but when I did, I had direct access to the engineering databases. Your inference that somehow my access was limited is incorrect; anything that was posted into the engineering database was available to me, or any approved access engineer, worldwide. I NEVER recall EVER seeing anything but 5w-30 or 5w-20 spec'd for Triton engines. Never have I seen 10w-40 or 20w-50 in any external or internal documents. I could be wrong; and that's why I'm asking for your proof. Right now, I don't see anything to back up your claims.

You anonymous sources to the contrary ...

 

[1medic]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The following links to F series official Ford manuals:
For the sake of brevity, I didn't list all of them, but feel free to seek out others.

1998 - 5w30 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOWF12/~MUS~LEN/36/98f12og1e.pdf

1999 - 5w30 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOXF12/~MUS~LEN/36/99f12og1e.pdf

2000 - 5w20 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOYF12/~MUS~LEN/36/00f12og5e.pdf

2002 - 5w-20 only grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO2F12/~MUS~LEN/36/02f12og3e.pdf

2004 F250 - only 5w-20 grade listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO4F23/~MUS~LEN/36/04f23og3e.pdf

2006 F350 - only 5w-20 listed
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO6F23/~MUS~LEN/36/06f23og2e.pdf


Now, I don't work at Ford any longer, but when I did, I had direct access to the engineering databases. Your inference that somehow my access was limited is incorrect; anything that was posted into the engineering database was available to me, or any approved access engineer, worldwide. I NEVER recall EVER seeing anything but 5w-30 or 5w-20 spec'd for Triton engines. Never have I seen 10w-40 or 20w-50 in any external or internal documents. I could be wrong; and that's why I'm asking for your proof. Right now, I don't see anything to back up your claims.

You anonymous sources to the contrary ...


My god man! Your tenacity with this issue amazing. You need to realize you may not know everything there is to know about Triton engines. I'm very surprised your not familiar with OSSMN#21217 (It is an "offical" Ford document

). Look it up and you'll find 10w/40 in writing. You won't find 20w/50 in writing. Do yourself a favor and "stay in the box". Because you have obviously proven you can't think outside of it. Don't ask for any other information. Your requests will go unanswered!!This is my last response. Have FUN!!!!

 

[Jim Allen]

OSSMN: 21217 was just a service bandaid in an attempt to placate customers complaining about noisy phasers in 2009 & 2010 era trucks. It wasn't a general recommendation. It has been since been rescinded. You can find that out by checking with your local Ford dealer. It's a stretch to claim something like that was some sort of official document generally recommending 10W40. We know Ford has tested with 10W40 and other oils in the Modular engines but they recommend 5W20. I have pasted the document below and it's meaning is very clear.

You claim to have spoken with Ford sources. You don't relate exactly what they said or who they are. FYI, in 2009, I e-mailed back and forth with a section leader at Ford's Modular engine Development Team, Jeff Kolodziejczyk. Among other things we talked about oil and he stuck with 5W20 in virtually all truck situations. Your turn.

Anyway, you're being lily-livered and childish about this. If you don't want to debate, just don't post. You don't have to make a big show of grabbing your marbles and going home. Sheesh. Maybe JAG was right.

 

[tig1]

How bout addin two cans of Motor Honey and leter go.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I NEVER recall EVER seeing anything but 5w-30 or 5w-20 spec'd for Triton engines. Never have I seen 10w-40 or 20w-50 in any external or internal documents. I could be wrong; and that's why I'm asking for your proof. Right now, I don't see anything to back up your claims.

We had a discussion about this very topic sometime ago and here is some research (with verifiable resources) that I did:

"To satisfy my curiosity and because I hate a mystery, I did some research on the question of what oil was originally specified for these engines and found some good information. Only the original 2V [non-variable camshaft timing (VCT)] engines had 5W-30 specified for them and of these only from 1997-1999 [For01, For02, & For03]. Starting in 2000, the 2V versions were specified to use 5W-20 as the oil of choice [For04]. This **may** be where confusion sets in regarding 5W-20 not being the original specified oil for the engine.

However, in North America, ALL 3V (VCT) versions of the 4.6L/5.4L engines had 5W-20 specified oil from the onset. Here is the data to substantiate this information, thus hopefully clearing any potential confusion about 5W-30 versus 5W-20 in these engines.


4.6L 3V:

1. "The 3-valve SOHC 4.6 L with variable camshaft timing (VCT) first appeared in the redesigned 2005 Ford Mustang." [Wik01].

2. From the 2005 Mustang OM (page 201) -- "4.6L 3V V8 Engine. Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil." [For05].



5.4L 3V:

1. "In 2002, Ford introduced a new 3-valve SOHC cylinder head with variable camshaft timing (VCT), improving power and torque over the previous 2-valve SOHC version. The 3-valve 5.4 L was introduced to the North American market in the redesigned 2004 Ford F-150". [Wik01].

2. From the 2004 F-150 OM (page 236) -- "4.6L/5.4L V8 Engine. Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil." [For06].



References:


[For01]. Ford Motor Company. (1997). 1997 F-150 Owner's Manual. (pp. 160). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOVF12/~MUS~LEN/36/97f12og1e.pdf

[For02]. Ford Motor Company. (1998). 1998 F-150 Owner's Manual. (pp.160). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOWF12/~MUS~LEN/36/98f12og1e.pdf

[For03]. Ford Motor Company. (1999). 1999 F-150 Owner's Manual. (pp.174). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOXF12/~MUS~LEN/36/99f12og1e.pdf

[For04]. Ford Motor Company. (2000). 2000 F-150 Owner's Manual. (pp. 203). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOYF12/~MUS~LEN/36/00f12og5e.pdf

[For05]. Ford Motor Company. (2005). 2005 Mustang Owner's Manual. (pp. 201). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO5MUS/~MUS~LEN/42/05musog3e.pdf

[For06]. Ford Motor Company. (2004). 2004 F-150 Owner's Manual. (pp. 236). Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO4F12/~MUS~LEN/36/04f12og5e.pdf

[Wik01]. Wikipedia. (2001). Ford Modular Engine. Retrieved November 21, 2011 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#3-valve_2"

 

[dnewton3]

Everything Jim and FX4 post up seems valid and reasonable.

Nothing in that information indicates to me that a "thicker" fluid is a "better" fluid, from a perspective of wear or operation. The 10w-40 addresses a "noise" reduction issue only. It's certainly not the "preferred" fluid. It's an acquiescence to customers that cannot abide by a light ticking sound. Nor does that mean the Triton engine series was "rated up to 20w-50" as was claimed. The 10w-40 grade rating is clearly an allowance to appease people; it is NOT an admission or condonation by Ford that thicker is better. In short, the 10w-40 is a noise-abatement consolation and nothing more. This is information I was unaware of; I had not seen the 21217 document until now. OTOH, all I ever asked for was "proof" of the 20w-50 claim. As of now, I still see nothing that backs up that claim. I left Ford in 2006; I suspect that 21217 document came along AFTER I left - hence why I was unware of if. Further, that thicker lube rating is a development LATE in the genealogy of the Triton engines; it certainly was not a recommended or preferred fluid when the modular engines were developed, or when the Tritons grew out of the original 4.6L mod motor. It is, in effect, an afterthought rating to quiet the whining of customers who complaing about ticking. That does NOT mean the engine family was developed with 10w-40 or 20w-50 as "approved" fluids. 5w-30 and then 5w-20 are the correct, intended fluids, and I've seen nothing to controvert that fact.


I think all of us owe it to each other to be concise and as accurate as possible. I openly admit I've learned things here on this site I was unaware of before, in regard to many differnt topics. I've also educated others on things they were unaware of. This should not be a bout egos; it should be about the correct, accurate sharing of information. Heck - I've been wrong before and had members correct me; I don't mind that. But all I ask is that if you find me in error, at least provide proof to back up one's claims. I can openly, publically admit my mistakes; that does not bother me in the least bit. I was unaware of the 10w-40 rating because I left Ford before that document came out. So be it; I was wrong. But I still have yet to see evidence of 20w-50 being rated, approved, suggested or even hinted at by Ford or credible sources that will step out from behind a cloaked curtain. In fact, I don't find the 10w-40 rating to be anything other than a customer-quieting move; it has zero bearing (partial pun here) on bearings, etc.

All that said, I publically offer my appology if I upset anyone, especially 1medic. That was not my intent. My goal is to find and spread solid facts and accurate data, and dispell mythology and rhetoric. No more and no less. If that labels me with "tenacity" then I wear that banner proudly.

The way I see it is this:
* 5w-30 and 5w-20 are the preferred (and developmental) fluids depending upon design year
* 10w-40 was approved only to quiet complaints and was not a "better" choice for wear and has since been rescinded
* 20w-50 is not (as of this point) shown to be approved or rated as acceptable in any manner