Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change

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Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
For 2000 miles the oil should have been checked several times.


Every time she got gas, right? just like it says in her owners manual....
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.


I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.


I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.


Agreed. There is no spec on what the break away torque should be. Also, as time goes by, the break away torque will increase. There are just too many factors to consider.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

Car was running OK before the oil change.


The car ran fine after the oil was changed too - for 2000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. If it was going to fail it would have right after the oil change. For 2000 miles the oil should have been checked several times. Did she not notice it was low? In order for it to have siezed, it would have to have been driven quite some time with no oil, engines don't sieze instantly. The was on unless it was broken. The original post doesn't say if the oil level was checked after it was seized.


Probably 90% of the populous does not check their oil either often enough, or really ever at all. Its just the way most people are. Go in for service probably over due, having never checked the oil. This may not have happened to one of us, but it would definitely happen to a non BITOG'r
smile.gif
 
I just don't see how you could prove that WM is at fault. Between the mileage and the time frame, I just don't see how a court would find in your favor. Im not saying that WM aren't to blame, just that there is too much going against you and there isn't 100% proof as to what caused this.
 
Originally Posted By: blkworth
I had my oil changed at a big-chain shop. My engine ceased after 2K miles. I am not sure what happen, so I am asking around to see if anyone have seen this before. Look at the picture and please give me your thoughts. And what do you think caused this....thanks..
Mazda Pictures


Wal-Mart changed the oil and the engine seized 2 thousand miles later?? Hard to believe they were at fault.....
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.


Sure there is, but the exact position of the cap would need to be marked, then loosened and re-torqued...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.


Sure there is, but the exact position of the cap would need to be marked, then loosened and re-torqued...


True ... that would work if it was marked after initial installation (which I'm sure it wasn't).

My comment was with respect to this particular situation, and just using a torque wrench to try and find the original torqued down value by simply breaking it loose.
 
I still don't see how the cracked cap had anything to do with the engine siezing. Any normal driver would have seen the oil light come on or smelled burning oil long before it seized. If anything they owe him a new cap. They aren't liable for someone driving it with no oil due to the cracked cap anymore than they would be liable for an engine that consumed all the oil in 2000 miles.
 
Thanks for the good discussion about my problem. I am looking at several things concerning this. First I am trying to determine with my mechanic if the vehicle has a low oil cut off 'switch'. If it does then the problem is not as bad as I/we think. Second the mechanic will be checking the torque on the cap. It is almost certain that they over-torgued it (mechanic stated it was extremely hard to removed). This will be hard to prove in court. And finally, he is checking to determine if they put the wrong filter in. I will respond with the outcome soon.
If anything is learned from the forum, I hope one of the things is that changing oil can be routine at times. But if we do not do the small things during/after then it can and will cost you/me (looks like approximately 5K for me), and a very expensive lesson for my daughter. For you fathers, we love them(kids) to death, but sometimes they can kill you with their decisions, be warned... ;-)...
 
I'll ask an obvious question that I may have missed. Was there any oil at all in the engine? As in, was the drain plug pulled?

Has the mechanic tried to turn the engine over by hand?
 
I am sorry but if your mechanic can not figure out if the engine is seized or if the starter is not getting engaged (because ECM has decided that you have no oil), he needs to quit being a mechanic.

If he does not want to go through the trouble of spinning the engine by hand, bypass the starter relay and see it cranks as usual or not.

- Vikas
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.


Sure there is, but the exact position of the cap would need to be marked, then loosened and re-torqued... [/quote]

True ... that would work if it was marked after initial installation (which I'm sure it wasn't).


Nope not the case, could have been marked at any time, including present... Mark the exact position of the cap, loosen then re-torque to the same position, noting torque on the wrench...
 
Watch the first 5 minutes of this video ... there are some good pointers on changing cartridge filters and some of the pitfalls are discussed. Obviously, the plastic caps on these cartridge filters need some special attention when handling.



As far as trying to determine how much this failed one was torqued down after the fact, depending on the o-ring style may have a bearing on how successful a "CSI activity" turns out. If the o-ring allows the edge of the canister to bottom out on the seat, then the torque vs rotation curve will basically be vertical, making it hard to determine what the original torque was by doing the marking trick. If the o-ring just compresses without bottoming out the cap on the seat, then doing the marking trick may give a better indication of what the original torque was, assuming the o-ring hasn't hardened or taken on a permanent set since the original torquing took place.

Bottom line is these plastic cartridge filter end caps are sensitive to installation technique. Use a bad technique and it might weaken the plastic over time, or even start a small crack that propagates over time with heat cycles (maybe over the 2000 miles in this case). This is why I never let anyone change my oil and filter, because you just don't know if they realize some of the technical aspects required to get the job done correctly.
 
I'm not a fan of FRAM basic filters BUT the video they produced above is EXCELLENT, I always appreciate and encourage any company that offers this kind of outstanding information regarding their products and or tips that can help do the job right.

A big TWO tumbs up to FRAM for that video above!!! Well done!
 
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