amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in.

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Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
It's in my '07 Powerstroke right now, about 4,000 miles on it and plan to go about 4,500 more before I change it with UOA. This is my first run of HDD and it's doing well so far. I tow a 33' toy hauler a couple weekends a month and haven't noticed any oil related problems. I thought it might start using some oil since HDD is thinner than what I've been running, but no problems there. I am still undecided about HDD in the heat of summer, I guess I'll let the UOA I will do in another couple months help me decide.

Powerstrokes have very specific running issues when you use a poort oil and this oil passes that test, but then again I drained Amsoil 5w40 to put this in. Sorry I don't have more.


Can I have it after you drain it?


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Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Can I have it after you drain it?


Sure, send me a prepaid shipping container and it's all yours.



It might be worth it???? I'll do some checking.
 
I have been on bitog for some years and I am colleged in mechanics years ago and I grew up on a farm. I'm younger then 60 and haVe gone from oil era years without additives to modern engine oils. Also know amsoil is not the first in synthetic oil like they tought. Let me also say that I'm not a big beleiver in synthetic oils with modern day conventionals so well refined along with superior additive packages.

My truck 2009 Dodge Cummins 6.7 emissions system gone.

My goals:
: Engine longevity
: 100*F summers, 80 av.
: -35*F winters, 10-20 above av.
: Tow a 14,000 lb 5th approx. 1,200 miles/year
: best mpg towing and nontowing
: best cold engine startup protection, as in not driven for a week or two.
: engine startup as in day to day
: total miles per year under 10,000
: oci once per year.
: I want cold weather startup that's thinner then 10w but the best engine protection at operateing temperature while towing.

The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.
 
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Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
I have been on bitog for some years and I am colleged in mechanics years ago and I grew up on a farm. I'm younger then 60 and haVe gone from oil era years without additives to modern engine oils. Also know amsoil is not the first in synthetic oil like they tought. Let me also say that I'm not a big beleiver in synthetic oils with modern day conventionals so well refined along with superior additive packages.

My truck 2009 Dodge Cummins 6.7 emissions system gone.

My goals:
: Engine longevity
: 100*F summers, 80 av.
: -35*F winters, 10-20 above av.
: Tow a 14,000 lb 5th approx. 1,200 miles/year
: best mpg towing and nontowing
: best cold engine startup protection, as in not driven for a week or two.
: engine startup as in day to day
: total miles per year under 10,000
: oci once per year.
: I want cold weather startup that's thinner then 10w but the best engine protection at operateing temperature while towing.

The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.



Then nothing said in this thread has made you see that any good dino will do all of the above just as well. I was once a "synthetics are the only REAL oil" person myself.....then I became educated. I have been running strictly dino for 3 years now, towing various trailers, coast to coast, in extreme cold and extreme heat, idling a lot....A LOT, pulling hard, starting up in 0* with no plug in for block heater, etc, etc, etc.....(and saved a good deal of money).

My point is this. I have yet to have an oil related problem with any of the last three engines, 1 gas and 2 diesel. They have run as well the day I sold the truck as the day that got them. My Dodge has had 40k miles put on it since Oct of 2010 and had the absolute pi$$ run out of it.....not a problem yet on VPB dino at 10k OCI's.

If you want to run a syn for peace of mind, then do so, but no real world results are going to show you anything unless you are willing to start trending UOAs, running for 50k OCIs, and using nothing but the Amsoil of which you ask about. And, AND we still do not know what you are using currently. So, buy your Amsoil and be happy and tell us how it goes.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.


I would beg to differ.

I run dino 10w-30 HDEO in similar circumstances as you state. Actually, I tow about 2x further than what you do (approx 3500 miles a year) in the extreme heat of CO, AZ, UT summers. I've driven to WI and MN in the dead of winter and experienced really cold starts. My truck is used intermittenly (not my primary mode of transport).

I'd ask that you review the following two UOAs ...
Here is a look at my UOAs with dino Rotella 10w-30:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1
Here is a look at RL syn with bypass:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379331&page=1
We both run 2006 Dmax trucks, pull approximately the same loads, ran for the same mileage, in similar circumstances. The real differences? He runs RL with a bypass filter and I run dino Rotella with a normal FF filter. I would completely agree that this is not a scientific lab test; this is a real world comparison with a LOT of similarities except the lube programs. It does not assure you that HDD is going to be any "better" or "worse" than Rotella dino or RL syn. It is merely anecdotal observation (based on incredibly similar vehicles, use and mileage; about as "even" as one can get outside the lab). Comparing and contrasting his RL/Bypass to my dino/Wix, how much "better" did his premium products do in wear metal control? I don't think it's possible to be any harder on an oil than I was this last time and not actually "neglect" the lube or equipment, and yet my wear protection was statistically as solid as his premium syn/bypsas set up.

Now, if you want to hedge your bet just a bit, you could consider T5 from Shell. It has essentially the same cold cranking rating as does Shell's T6 synthetic, for a lot less money. I have every reason to believe HDD would do a great job, too. My point is that there are a lot of lubes that might do well for you. You need to define your total overall maintenance plan, then ask around and see what other people are doing similar to your operational parameters, and then pick a few lubes you'd like to try.

My point from a few posts back seems to be true; you have a preconcieved notion that "only a synthetic" will work in your circumstances. I find that to be untrue; I operate in very similar conditions as you. I'm NOT saying HDD is a bad choice; that's not true at all. I'm saying you should consider many different options. You came into this thread stating you didn't want to hear from anyone but HDD users; you had your mind made up that only one specific synthetic would do the job at hand. I hope that you're now a bit more open-minded and would consider alternatives to HDD.
To summarize:
* cold starts; hot towing (towing mileage is approx 15% of your overall OCI)
* 1 OCI per year at or less than 10k miles
* looking to maximize fuel economy while protecting engine
Those conditions are not unique to synthetics; dinos can do them as well.

Look - the only TRUE way to know which oil is going to be better in your specific situation is to try a few of them, run them as consistently as possible, and do UOAs along the way. Rather than be one of the masses that "guesses", why not actually test under your circumstances, and post up results? You want to try HDD? Go for it! Run it for a season and do a UOA. Then try T5 10w-30. Then try something else. Why not add to the knowledge base of the site? That's what I do; I put my money where my mouth is. I test my theory and post it for everyone to see; I describe the useage factors in great detail.

If you state: "I am going to use HDD because it's the best; no other lube will work" then I'm going to vehemently disagree with you.
If you state: "I am curious; I want to try HDD because I'm going to experiment with different lubes, after talking with a few people that have similar circumstances to me, and then I'll find the lube that is the best fit into my personal maintenance plan based upon protection, viability and costs" then I would applaud your approach.

It is possible that HDD might be the "best" (it is a great product), but you won't know until you try a few options.
BTW - did you kow that Castrol makes Elxion, a 5w-30 PAO HDEO syn? http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int.../0-999/1854.pdf
I'm not saying that it would be any "better" or "worse" than anything else, but HDD is not the ONLY product in the very narrow market niche you seek.

P.S. You wouldn't happen to live in Absarokee, would you?
 
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Okay, I didn't know (never seen in my area) another 5w 30 diesel oil. The thread topic should have started who makes a 5w30 diesel oil and how do they compare.

Then you see the subject line would still come around to: their all so simular just pick the one on sale and go with it.

I beleive just good enough is not good enough when you live in a very rural area and that vehicle needs to perform no matter if its getting groceries or a life and death situation.

I know there's alot of amsoil haters out there and that's also one of the reasons my title is what it is. Just trying to keep the rif-raf out.
 
Forgot to add I'm north of south dakota but no eh.


And it really doesn't matter what I have been useing since I want to try a 30 weight oil and get the same wear protection of a 40 weight. I.m very skeptical of the wear performance of any 30 weight in tough towing conditions.

That brings on another question, are there any 0-30 ci+4, cj4 diesel oils I can purchase in the U.S.?
 
Did you look over my UOA using dino 10w-30? Towing in heat is not an issue. And, there are other UOAs here where guys use 10w-30 in PSDs and ISBs. Look them over as well. Some use JD oils in 10w-30 dino with great results as well.

Your fear of thinner oils is somewhat unfounded. But don't feel bad; you're not alone in that regard.

This forum is good for discussion about HDEOs. But if you really want facts, go wander around the UOA portion of this site. Why ask questions when you can see actual results?

Again, look over my UOA; I clearly define the significant harsh use I put my truck through last year. It would be inconcieveable to be any "harder" on my oil, and not abuse it.

My UOAs in a Dmax with 10w-30 dino HDEO:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1

A UOA with 10w-30 HDEO in a Cummins:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2231310&page=1

UOAs with 10w-30 HDEO in a Ford PSD:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966220&page=1


For the last time, I'll state that HDD is a perfectly good fluid and would work well. So would the Elixion I noted. So would a lot of other products.

Your fear of thinner HDEOs during hard use is understandable, given the "oil bigotry" of the HDEO market, but it is, in fact, unfounded. Do you suppose your fear of being stranded (in what I presume is ND) is any differnt from my fear of having my family stranded in the 100+ deg heat of the desolate outstretches of UT in July while pulling my trailer off road to find an isolated forrest service area to camp?
 
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OK - next we tackle the "cold".

Looking at Minot, ND (central upper ND, probably the colder area of the state) you have an average low of +3degF. Cold? Yes. Uber-stupid-cold? Sort-of .... The statistical lower 2nd sigma for your area is typically no colder in ambient temps than -18F. Yes, you hit some pretty ugle low temps as records, but the AVERAGE low temp is only +3F, in January (the coldest month). (I spent a little time in the weather data records of NOAA and the NCDC looking up data for your area).

You may not want to hear this, but a dino 10w-30 could survive your area and provide what you seek as far as good wear protection. I suspect that's not going to satisfy you. It would work in your situation, but if you simply cannot abide by that, just understand you're working on emotion and not facts at that point.

Then consider HDD, ACD or even OE from Amsoil.
Or T5 10w-30.
Or Castrol semi or full syns.

You won't "Need" them, but if it makes you feel "better" and you cannot sleep without them, then do it. Just don't try to justify it with facts, because it really does not work out that way.


What you should be open to is the concept of what is adequate. Do NOT confuse "adequate" with sub-par or marginal. Adequate means something that meets a predetermined set of criteria.

I would fully agree that a semi-syn is probably worth the extra cost in your situation, because the cost over a dino really isn't that much and T5 can be found at most any WallyWorld. But do you "need" a full-blown 5w-30 PAO? No. Don't get caught trying to split hairs about which is the "best" oil. Pick from a group of good oils that will assure a safe threshold of performance.

Garak (in Regina) will remind us that the fear of catostrophic engine damage is often much larger than the reality in cold starts. He's learned not to worry about it. Nit-picking which oil is "best" at cold starts is moot. Pick one from several that are "good enough" and don't worry about it, because UOAs show they don't materialize into significant differences. The topic is no different that hot temps; just in the opposite direction. Is a 5w-30 PAO going to start and flow better than a 15w-40 dino in your area? Absolutely yes. Is that 5w-30 PAO going to show a statistically significant difference in wear reduction or starting advantage over a 10w-30 semi-syn in your area? Very probabaly not.

More than anything else, you need good batteries. They are what can make/break a cold start for compression ignition engines. And your common rail ISB with intake heater really needs strong voltage much more than worrying about which oil has the last "nth" difference of MRV rating at -20degF. Get a good trickle charger like a "Battery Tender" and keep it hooked up as much as possible. That will help year round.
 
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I don't think I have heard the term flow point ( or the arbitrary 30 degree difference) outside of cummins forum. Cold cranking viscosity and low temp pumping viscosity as defined by sae j300 are better measures than pour point. How oil flows effectively out of the bottle is a totally different animal compared to how it acts in a closed pressurized environment.
 
Thanks for the recommendations.

Emotion or fact the realistic of our area we have seen 24 hour periods of teens to twentys below zero for high temps for three weeks straight. Then any number from -35*F to the next week of +35*F. That is normal for a normal year. Now this winter and the crazy warm weather I could have used Straight 40 without problems but my crystal ball has been on the fritz. LOL

A 5 weight would flow better and protect better at -35*F then a 10 weight. Now add in a dino oil will need more viscosity improvers which can shear down and tend to do while a synthetic without or minimual amounts, NO? I could put on pan heaters and plug in or use an espar but I choose not to for simplicity or the rare occasion it wouldn't work out. Just for clarification I do plug in during the winter if I know ahead of time I need to use the truck.

I know most of my fears are unfounded throw backs from 50 years ago and brought by a father and mother who lived the dust bowl era trying to survive on a dirt farmers income but could only afford the minimium but hey, I'm still here and doing fine when most have folded, sold, or just gone away. LOL
 
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I completely applaud your approach. At least you're open to discussion; that is refreshing at times.

My opinion is separate from facts. I'll state opinions just like anyone. Facts from credible sources are paramount to me. That is what I base my opinions upon.

I believe and agree you would be "better" served with a up-market product. The question really is: which one is good enough to provide a strong level of protection, while not breaking the bank? "Best" can be easily defined, but "good enough" often eludes people. It's often easy to just buy the "best" and know you're covered, rather than put a lot of research and though into what would suffice. Again, don't confuse the words; pick from a group of products that will well protect your life and investment. But don't fall prey to the thought that there is only one "good enough" product.

Again, look over the UOAs we have. Lot's of good data there.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Garak (in Regina) will remind us that the fear of catostrophic engine damage is often much larger than the reality in cold starts. He's learned not to worry about it. Nit-picking which oil is "best" at cold starts is moot. Pick one from several that are "good enough" and don't worry about it, because UOAs show they don't materialize into significant differences.


For those who worry about 10w-30 HDEO in the winter, I can agree it's not "optimal." After all, the holy grail would be something that keeps the correct viscosity at all temperatures.

That being said, diesel farm equipment and diesel trucks have been used in this province and in the cold for many years. My dad always had diesel farm equipment and had diesel trucks since the 1980s. His winter oil choice was Esso XD-3 10w-30 in all the diesel equipment. Because of the nature of diesels of the time, plugging in the block heater was essential.

Remember, too, that with a diesel truck, you're more lucky to have a warm up period that's extended beyond what most would do (or what's certainly required) in a gasoline engine.
 
We really need that XOM Esso XD-3 0W30 (or whatever they call it now) to be sold south of Canada for diesel owners who can't plug in in really cold weather. Still think that's the best answer, and I would bet some fuel economy improvement would happen too.
 
I must confess the ultimate reason for researching a 30 grade diesel oil was/is for maybe improved MPG. If I cann't gain any MPG with a 30 grade oil at a resonable price then I might as well stick with Rotella 5-40 that I have been useing. The cost isn't much more then most conventional 10-30's and less then all other synthetics plus I have the 5 grade for winter starts in emergency starts. I know Rotella 5-40 isn't a true synthetic but for the price does just as good of a job for my goals.

I thought a good synthetic 5-30 would probably give me better mpg's but honestly it's hard to swallow the price when I can buy Rotella 5-40 poser synthetic for half the price and I'm not going for long extended oci's.

Still up in the air on what to do. I'll have to keep thinking about this and doing a little more reading to make the final decision.

Still interested if anyone has some input one way or the other.

Want to thank those who have given information and their time on this subject. It has been a pleasure and welcomeing experience unlike other websites I'm on.

Thanks again to all and your hard relentless pursuit of quality information.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Still think that's the best answer, and I would bet some fuel economy improvement would happen too.


Well, if that's not available south of the border (now called Delvac Elite 222 or something like that), perhaps a Petro-Canda distributor down there can get you Duron XL 0w-30 HDEO.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
I must confess the ultimate reason for researching a 30 grade diesel oil was/is for maybe improved MPG.


I didn't experience any discernible gain in mpg when I switched from 5w40 Amsoil to 5w30 Amsoil. My truck does daily driver duties during the week and tows on the weekend. I have to say that I am a bit dissapointed to not have recorded a mileage increase tho.
 
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