Synthetic oil snafus

[spock1]

We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.
But,synthetic oils are not the ideal oils for some applications.
A perfect example of misapplication would be the Mobil AV-1 incident in the early nineties.
This oil was used in airplane piston engines with less than stellar results-need I say more?
Does anybody remember that incident and the cause of the problem?
So synthetic motor oil is not the best choice in some applications in piston engines .


Are there other cases where regular oils are preferred?

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.

Wrong.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.


Looks like somebody needs to dig out some old threads were real meat and potatoes were discussed, not mindless cheerleading that's been going on few a while now.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.


Add me to the disagree column.

Bill

 

[spock1]

Regular motor oil might be acceptable if you live in Toronto or Vancouver.If you live in Edmonton or other northern cities you need a top quality synthetic if you want you car to start unplugged in the winter without trashing itself to bit in no time at all.
The economics of synthetic motor oil have been proven over and over again.-longer OCI,cleaner engine ,2% reduction in fuel consumption,cooler engine,etc, etc.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: spock1
Regular motor oil might be acceptable if you live in Toronto or Vancouver.If you live in Edmonton or other northern cities you need a top quality synthetic if you want you car to start unplugged in the winter without trashing itself to bit in no time at all.
The economics of synthetic motor oil have been proven over and over again.-longer OCI,cleaner engine ,2% reduction in fuel consumption,cooler engine,etc, etc.


You NEED to spend some time reading this site.

Longer OCI? Wrong.
Cleaner engine? Wrong.
2% reduction in fuel consumption? Please....

(to make it clear.. WRONG)
cooler engine? Wrong.

Etc, etc.. Let us know what those are.

Sorry to be blunt.

Bill

 

[simple_gifts]

Surely Bill isn't suggesting a properly formulated synthetic oil can't be run for an extended period.

 

[Bill in Utah]

That would be correct.

In most engines syn oil is not magic. It does not fix issues and should NOT be run not a mile longer than conventional oils in some situations.

The people (manufactures) who build engines also state that. Severe service limits should be followed no matter what oil you use. They have done a ton more testing than we ever will. If they have done testing and state it then please let us know who and where. Every manual that I've read *IF* it states anything about syn states to STILL change it per the manual (ie same as conventional. This incls Subaru, Ford, GM and Toyota that I've read lately)

Now oil companies selling their oil say something else. And its up to each of us to decide what to do. That is fine and some are successful. Some are not.

I've said here for almost 10 years that IF your engine NEEDS syn then run it. I've also said anything force fed I'd prob run it. Also there are engines these days that require it but don't need it. (though I'd still run it while in warranty) It does allow them to get more $$ when you go into the stealership (and most of them still put a 3-5k mile or 3-6mo sticker in the windshield for the next $ervice)

Take VW for example. What did they do to their engines from 1986 when I ran my Jetta to 394,000 miles on API SE to API SM conventional oils (and well below zero on 10w-30 till 1996 when 5w-30 came out) to now requiring 5.xx (whatever they are up to) in their current Jettas?

Take care, bill

 

[Nomad110]

I'm a bit of a noob but all of the articles I've read on Bob is the Oil Guy seem to say that synthetic is always able to outperform Dino oil. It breaks down less, resist shear better, etc. Am I off my rocker?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
In most engines syn oil is not magic.


X2

 

[webfors]

What bill said.

Especially the 2% fuel economy increase with oils of the same viscosity. Now, if we're talking comparing a 10w30 versus a 0w30 through the winter months, there are some fuel savings during warm up... how much? I don't know.

 

[MuzzleFlash40]

I was on the synthetic band wagon for years. After researching VOA's and UOA's from both dino and syn. I decided that spending the extra cash on syn for the 5k OCI that I do on both vehicles just wasnt worth it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
I was on the synthetic band wagon for years. After researching VOA's and UOA's from both dino and syn. I decided that spending the extra cash on syn for the 5k OCI that I do on both vehicles just wasnt worth it.

I am getting there myself. My FX4 has had PU in it since the first OC, but next OC it will see some of the Mobil Super that I have been collecting from OR and AZ. I will continue with the UOAs to increase the knowledge base of information about oil. I can always go back to PU if I am not satisfied with the results, but an $11.50 OC beats a $40.00 OC all day provided the results are similar.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.


No, we most certainly do not agree on that point.

I've never used a synthetic oil. For the last 20 years or so I've used whatever name brand conventional is on sale when I'm ready to change the oil-once in the spring and again in the fall regardless of mileage. I've started and worked engines in sub-zero weather, and worked them fairly hard in hot, humid weather, and I've never had an oil related issue or an engine fail.

In my opinion, for most users synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Originally Posted By: spock1
Regular motor oil might be acceptable if you live in Toronto or Vancouver.If you live in Edmonton or other northern cities you need a top quality synthetic if you want you car to start unplugged in the winter without trashing itself to bit in no time at all.
The economics of synthetic motor oil have been proven over and over again.-longer OCI,cleaner engine ,2% reduction in fuel consumption,cooler engine,etc, etc.


That comment is about as incorrect as you can possibly get.

 

[steve20]

I only buy syn when I can get it cheaper than dino-----

 

[gathermewool]

I disagree with both the OP and Bill. Bill, as a mod you should be careful with taking absolute positions (especially when you then make a contradictory statement about synthetic applications.) Who gives a flying [censored] about what the manual says with respect to OCI on this site where extended OCI's are the norm. IMO, manufacturers stating to follow a certain OCI regardless of whether a greater-than-spec'd oil is used is simply to cover their butts.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I disagree with both the OP and Bill. Bill, as a mod you should be careful with taking absolute positions (especially when you then make a contradictory statement about synthetic applications.) Who gives a flying [censored] about what the manual says with respect to OCI on this site where extended OCI's are the norm. IMO, manufacturers stating to follow a certain OCI regardless of whether a greater-than-spec'd oil is used is simply to cover their butts.




I think you should have pm`d this remark.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.
But,synthetic oils are not the ideal oils for some applications.
A perfect example of misapplication would be the Mobil AV-1 incident in the early nineties.
This oil was used in airplane piston engines with less than stellar results-need I say more?
Does anybody remember that incident and the cause of the problem?
So synthetic motor oil is not the best choice in some applications in piston engines.


AV-1 was a poor formulation. It was based solely on PAOs with no polar base oils, and had insufficient dispersants to compensate for the non-polar PAO. As a result it was incapable of handling the "lead sludge" that is generated in certain engines using leaded fuel. The product was withdrawn and substantial compensation was paid for damaged engines.

Similar rashes of failures have occured in petroleum based oils as well. It is not a "synthetic" failure as much as a misapplication of the wrong synthetic in the wrong formulation for the wrong application.

That said, I agree that the use of "synthetic" base oils does not guarantee a superior lubricant, and in some applications may be inferior.

Tom NJ

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: steve20
I only buy syn when I can get it cheaper than dino-----


Same here. I LOAD UP my cart with oil when there's a super sale / discount. At the prices i've bought synthetic oils for ($1.75 a quart to as low as $0.50 a quart for QSUD after the -$20 rebate) i don't see why anyone was purposely WANT to use dino because "oh, i don't NEED synthetic oil in my engine", or, "It's a waste of __BLANK___"

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I disagree with both the OP and Bill. Bill, as a mod you should be careful with taking absolute positions (especially when you then make a contradictory statement about synthetic applications.) Who gives a flying [censored] about what the manual says with respect to OCI on this site where extended OCI's are the norm. IMO, manufacturers stating to follow a certain OCI regardless of whether a greater-than-spec'd oil is used is simply to cover their butts.




I think you should have pm`d this remark.


I don't, i think it's nicely said and is a good point in this poor thread.

 

[dave1251]

If someone wants to use synthetic go ahead. But it should be noted that is not superior for every situation. As far as extending OCI'S I press my conventional to 7K on whatever I can find on sale. Comparing this to synthetic I would have to extend my OCI'S to 15-20K to break even. No thank you.