New Wix filter for Subaru Applications - 23 psi's

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Ok, you Honeywell haters/Framophobes.
grin2.gif
You now have a new Wix optiIon. I was browsing nasioc's Newbie forum (of all places) and came across a reply stating that there is a brand new Wix filter with the Subaru 23 psi bypass seting that wasn't even in stores yet. The person did not state their souce.

I checked Wix's site and found this pdf in the news section showing the 57712 mentioned in the nasioc reply, but no mention of bypass (bottom of list):
http://www.wixconnect.com/assets/WIX 07-04-11 (Revised 01-17-2012)NOP.pdf

So I sent an email to Wix and received the following reply:
Quote:


[email protected]> wrote:

bypass valve is set at 23 lbs. of differential pressure.


Thank you for your interest in WIX Filters.

check out our website @ [URL='http://www.wixfilters.com']www.wixfilters.com[/url]
National Hotline (800) 949-6698 Mon. 8-5,
Tues 8:45-5, W-F 8-5 (Eastern)
---------------------------------------------
Hi,

What's the bypass pressure on your new 57712 oil filter for Subaru applications?

Thanks,
Dennis


Happy hunting!
 
Cool. Do you happen to know the length and diameter? Because Wix does not show any data on their webpage for #57712
 
Last edited:
D'oh! Forgot to ask. I sent another email. Maybe ut's the same as the filter it's replacing.
15208AA12A
 
I don't think anyone has really found out for sure why Subaru uses/specifies such a high by-pass valve setting. Even a medium sized PureOne only produces ~5 PSID across the oil filter with 12 GPM flow of hot oil flow.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

I can't imagine the Subaru filter or any aftermarket filter with a 23 PSI bypass setting running anywhere close to 23 PSID during normal operation.
 
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed


That's a good theory ... and I doubt the PSID with hot oil isn't anywhere near the 23 PSI of the bypass valve setting.

Cold oil, maybe ... but when the oil is cold the pump will hit pressure 100~105 PSI relief with much less oil flow output, which also helps keep the PSID across the filter in check with cold oil.
 
Height is 2.577. Is diameter "O.D."? That's 2.685.
Flow rate is 9-11 GPM's.

-Dennis
 
I used a Fram tough guard one time on my Subie, until I realized it was junk. I then used a P1 for a couple of oil changes and now I've settled on the M1 filters with the oil change specials that happen once every few months.
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Height is 2.577. Is diameter "O.D."? That's 2.685.
Flow rate is 9-11 GPM's.

-Dennis


Thanks. Those dimensions are the same as I measure on the Tokyo Roki ....A100 filters.

Subaru says the oil pump in the 2.5L turbo motor can put out 12.4 gal/min, or more, at 5000rpm and 176 degF. Will the Wix filter go into bypass at >5000rpm, because of its 11 gpm limit?
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Possibly to limit by-pass when cold. The pump by-pass is 100-105 psi for the turbo engines. Subaru engines move a lot of oil.

Ed


In my FSM, the pump bypass is listed as 85psi, for the 2.5L turbo motor.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Subaru says the oil pump in the 2.5L turbo motor can put out 12.4 gal/min, or more, at 5000rpm and 176 degF. Will the Wix filter go into bypass at >5000rpm, because of its 11 gpm limit?


I'm wondering if that 12 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil is actually what the engine & filter is flowing, or if that's a raw volumetric output of the oil pump with no restriction provided by the engine + filter oiling system (?).

Even is there was 12 GPM of oil at 176 deg F going through a medium sized filter, I wouldn't expect more than ~8-10 PSI pressure drop across the filter, since a PureOne shows ~5 PSID with 212 deg F oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...451#Post1619451

I really don't know what the "11 GPM limit" really means on the WIX filter. Could be it means the PSID is getting close to the bypass valve opening pressure setting.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
In my FSM, the pump bypass is listed as 85psi, for the 2.5L turbo motor.


So that might mean the engine will flow this 12.4 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil when the oil pump is maxed out at 85 PSI (ie, in pressure relief mode).
 
Ah, the 100 psi was correct for the 2.0L. I saw that in print somewhere and is exactly what I saw on the gauge in my 2003 WRX.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...........I'm wondering if that 12 GPM at 5000 RPM with 176 deg F oil is actually what the engine & filter is flowing, or if that's a raw volumetric output of the oil pump with no restriction provided by the engine + filter oiling system (?).........


Good question, the service manual provides no clue.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that there are several oil pumps Subaru has used on various engines and all are basically interchangeable. Each of these pumps has its own spec for pressure/s, and volume at given RPMs.

7mm
8mm
9mm
10mm
11mm
12mm

Here is a cheat sheet for the volumes and pressures of the above pumps that has been posted on the web before.
SubaruOilPumps.jpg


To pull specs from a manual I have at hand(2008 Forester NA), here is how the specs for flow, pressure at RPM with oil at temp are stated for a 10mm pump.

Oil Pump Performance(oil temp @ 176°F):
- 600RPM

Discharge pressure = 14 PSI
Discharge rate = 4.9 US qt/min

- 5,000RPM
Discharge pressure = 43 PSI
Discharge rate = 49.7 US qt/min

Being that the flow rates are stated at a given PSI, it would lead one to believe that they are to take into account the restriction provided by a factory speced engine build.

If this was a bench test one would expect to see the listed pressure to be close to zero or none given at all, as you can't have pressure without a restriction at the outlet. Otherwise for a corrected bench test it would likely be listed that you would need to use a specific size orifice to simulate the proper restriction of a factory speced engine.

Even with the listed 9-11GPM it wouldn't worry me as you are only going to see full oil pump out put volume at 5,000RPM+. Which is only going to be in short bursts for a Daily Driver, it at all for some.

In the case of the '08+ STI 11mm pump, another manual I have Specs it at 66.6L/min(or more) @ 56.8PSI. 17.59gal/min(or more) and calls for the same 15208AA12A as the little NAs. Seeing as Napa is doing the same and calls out the Napa Gold 7712 for the '08+ STI and the NAs with the little 10mm pump, I again don't think of the flow as being an issue.

Subaru does not spec the flow for the filter in the manual but a quick email may answer your question more then any of us on the web can speculate. SOAs customer service is pretty good about answering these types of questions.
 
Originally Posted By: flstffxe

Here is a cheat sheet for the volumes and pressures of the above pumps that has been posted on the web before.
SubaruOilPumps.jpg


To pull specs from a manual I have at hand(2008 Forester NA), here is how the specs for flow, pressure at RPM with oil at temp are stated for a 10mm pump.

Oil Pump Performance(oil temp @ 176°F):
- 600RPM

Discharge pressure = 14 PSI
Discharge rate = 4.9 US qt/min

- 5,000RPM
Discharge pressure = 43 PSI
Discharge rate = 49.7 US qt/min

Being that the flow rates are stated at a given PSI, it would lead one to believe that they are to take into account the restriction provided by a factory speced engine build.


If this was a bench test one would expect to see the listed pressure to be close to zero or none given at all, as you can't have pressure without a restriction at the outlet. Otherwise for a corrected bench test it would likely be listed that you would need to use a specific size orifice to simulate the proper restriction of a factory speced engine.


Good info! Yes, it certainly looks like there is some restriction down stream in these flow and pressure specs. One would have to assume they made the restriction factor close to the engine's oiling system to get accurate pump performance data. Or it's possible they actually measured the pressures and flows on the actual engines.

I'm assuming all the specs in the table are with the same oil viscosity (ie, same weight oil at the magical 176 deg F).
 
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