I have a 2009 TDI Jetta and wish to use 507 synthetic oils at 10K fill intervals.Right now I use Pento Super Performance 5w30. Do the low SAP oils compromise wear protection at high pressure contact sites like cam lobes? If so, will adding small amounts of ZDDP to each fill compromise the catalyst or diesel particulate filter?
low SAP oils and wear protection
- Thread starter PaulReif
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Cam lobe wear isn't an issue on the 2009 and newer model TDI's like it was on the 2004 - 2006 models (North American market) that had the Pumpe Duese injection system where fuel injectors were driven individually off each cam lobe. Your 2009 will be fine with a 507 oil, do not add ZDDP as excessive amounts may cause problems with the DPF. Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W30 is on the thicker side of the 5W30 spec and would be an excellent choice for your 2009. It is 507 approved. It can be found at most Pep Boys auto parts stores.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.aspx#
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.aspx#
JHZR2
Staff member
Yeah, if not for poor TBN retention (in gas engines that get 50 ppm sulfur fuel), that is a good oil, IMO. I would do a UOA to be sure of TBN at 10 k.
I see I'm not the only one who has noted poor TBN
retention with these oils.
Charlie
retention with these oils.
Charlie
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I see I'm not the only one who has noted poor TBN
retention with these oils.
Charlie
I was a very early adopter of that oil (look at my old VOA/UOAs from a few years back now). Its just not an oil for the NA market, and precisely why specs like BMW LL-04 have not been adopted for gas engines in NA.
I see I'm not the only one who has noted poor TBN
retention with these oils.
Charlie
I was a very early adopter of that oil (look at my old VOA/UOAs from a few years back now). Its just not an oil for the NA market, and precisely why specs like BMW LL-04 have not been adopted for gas engines in NA.
So, gasoline fueled engines attack TBN more than Diesel apps? Is this why Diesel fueled in Europe rely on TAN, because TBN retention is much better there and an oil may need changing before TBN depletes to as low over here?
No, TBN is a problem with these oils in diesels also. That's why I use D1 LE.
Charlie
Charlie
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
So, gasoline fueled engines attack TBN more than Diesel apps? Is this why Diesel fueled in Europe rely on TAN, because TBN retention is much better there and an oil may need changing before TBN depletes to as low over here?
Its primarily a result low sulfur fuel. Parts of Europe have both low sulfur gasoline and diesel. Sulfur is US gas is higher. ULSD is just tad higher in the US.
Now with that said Mercedes has moved to a 10k mile OCI on their gasoline DI engines in the US and they run a mid-SAPS. So now you have both VW and Benz using low/mid-Saps in their gassers. BMW does not and I believe it's because they don't want to shorten the OCI to 10k. It's due to cost.
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
So, gasoline fueled engines attack TBN more than Diesel apps? Is this why Diesel fueled in Europe rely on TAN, because TBN retention is much better there and an oil may need changing before TBN depletes to as low over here?
Its primarily a result low sulfur fuel. Parts of Europe have both low sulfur gasoline and diesel. Sulfur is US gas is higher. ULSD is just tad higher in the US.
Now with that said Mercedes has moved to a 10k mile OCI on their gasoline DI engines in the US and they run a mid-SAPS. So now you have both VW and Benz using low/mid-Saps in their gassers. BMW does not and I believe it's because they don't want to shorten the OCI to 10k. It's due to cost.
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
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Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
On my last UOA in the 530i at 10K miles OCI, Wearcheck flagged the sample saying the oil needed to be changed because TAN was nearing TBN. And that was with a high-SAPs oil.
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
On my last UOA in the 530i at 10K miles OCI, Wearcheck flagged the sample saying the oil needed to be changed because TAN was nearing TBN. And that was with a high-SAPs oil.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
On my last UOA in the 530i at 10K miles OCI, Wearcheck flagged the sample saying the oil needed to be changed because TAN was nearing TBN. And that was with a high-SAPs oil.
I can't copy the Doug Hillary comments from my phone but IIRC he participated in some engine tests were TAN levels were extremely high and the engines were found to have suffered no ill effects. IIRC it was something like 25k miles. IIRC Doug suggested soot and iron were more of an issue on diesels rather than TAN.
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Now as Charlie knows I've come to the conclusion that TAN is irrelevant when were talking an OCI under 15k miles.
On my last UOA in the 530i at 10K miles OCI, Wearcheck flagged the sample saying the oil needed to be changed because TAN was nearing TBN. And that was with a high-SAPs oil.
I can't copy the Doug Hillary comments from my phone but IIRC he participated in some engine tests were TAN levels were extremely high and the engines were found to have suffered no ill effects. IIRC it was something like 25k miles. IIRC Doug suggested soot and iron were more of an issue on diesels rather than TAN.
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
No, TBN is a problem with these oils in diesels also. That's why I use D1 LE.
Charlie
But ULSD is 15 ppmw S max (generally 5-10), whereas gasoline is 50 max, and is generally pretty close.
Our fuel is the reason why we dont get lean stratified charge in DI gasoline engines too.
Of course, capital cost to get that sulfur out of gas is $.
No, TBN is a problem with these oils in diesels also. That's why I use D1 LE.
Charlie
But ULSD is 15 ppmw S max (generally 5-10), whereas gasoline is 50 max, and is generally pretty close.
Our fuel is the reason why we dont get lean stratified charge in DI gasoline engines too.
Of course, capital cost to get that sulfur out of gas is $.
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